From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Apr 22 21:00:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 23 Apr 2001 04:00:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 493 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 04:00:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2001 04:00:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.39) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 04:00:05 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:00:05 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.49 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 04:00:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.49] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] conditionals in Lojban Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 04:00:05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2001 04:00:05.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[E16A5E50:01C0CBA9] From: "Jorge Llambias" la lojbab cusku di'e > >Not {cusku}, that's for saying the words. > >The medium of expression velsku need not be "words". So how do you say "he expressed happiness" using {cusku}? > >Also not necessarily {cinmo}, as some attitudes are not emotions, > >I'm not clear as to which ones are not. For example {ai}, intentions are not emotions as far as I understand. >For example, all of the >attitudinals are potentially subject to modification by the emotional >classifiers ro'V, so in Lojban they are to some extent all "emotions". Yes, if you redefine "emotion" as "anything expressed by Lojban attitudinals", then every attitudinal expresses an emotion. Is that what {cinmo} means, or does it correspond to a more standard meaning of "emotion"? >Most emotions or attitudes are expressed as a response to some stimulus. Yes. But I don't need to be aware of the stimulus in order for me to understand what you're expressing when you say oi, ui or u'i. I do need to know what ei or ai are about in order to understand what you're expressing. And what stimulated you to feel obligated or to feel an intention is not what I mean, it is what you intend or have to do that I need to know. >"Shall we go out partying tonight?" ".ei" > >either means that we are obliged to go out partying (unlikely) or obliged >to do something else. I can only get the first meaning. >Responding with ".ai" clearly means that the person intends to go out >partying. Yes. >Oh. You were asking about a "bare" ".ai" not one that was not in response >to something. I was saying that ai and ei need something to be about, whereas oi, ui and u'i can express a pure attitude by themselves, irrespective of what caused the feeling. >In the second and third examples, neither "you" nor >"people" need to feel said obligation in order for "mi" to express it. Of course. "People should respect their elders" does not say anything about people feeling any obligation. co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.