From araizen@newmail.net Sat Apr 28 17:20:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 29 Apr 2001 00:20:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 98196 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 00:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2001 00:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 00:20:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: araizen@newmail.net Received: from [10.1.10.122] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2001 00:20:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:20:20 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Usage of logical connectives? Message-ID: <9cfmo4+lb3t@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1335 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.0.181.117 From: "Adam Raizen" la xorxes cusku di'e > In any case, {mi curmi le nu do klama le panka kei le nu do > nicygau le do kumfa} is the clearest translation. I hope that the x3 of words like "curmi" and "binxo" don't indicate a cause. If so, then "curmi" doesn't mean "let", but "would let, if x3", and "binxo" would mean "would become if x3", both of which are much less useful than a more general meaning (this particular case notwithstanding). I think it's better to interpret these places like we normally would interpret the x4 and x3 (respectively) of "skari" and "viska", i.e. as indicating a "background" for the main bridi (though it's not clear why these gismu in particular need that place and most of the others don't). We need a way to express a cause as a selbrivla and as a sumti tcita. I used to use "va'o" for that, but that raises the question of how to say "I had a good time at the performance." The meaning isn't quite "vi" or "ca", and "mi se zdile va'o le se tigni" would work, if "va'o" doesn't indicate a cause. Then what to use to indicate a cause? I think I'll try "bapli" and "bai" for this, though it might be forcing it a little. :-) "i ko ei nicygau le pe do kumfa isebaibo mi zifygau do le nu klama le panka" or alternatively: "i ko nicygau le kumfa pe do ja'e le nu mi zifygau do le nu klama le panka" mu'o mi'e adam