From phma@oltronics.net Tue May 08 04:56:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 8 May 2001 11:56:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 77615 invoked from network); 8 May 2001 10:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 May 2001 10:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO neofelis.ixazon.lan) (207.15.133.7) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 May 2001 10:55:27 -0000 Received: by neofelis.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 500) id D1E993C573; Mon, 7 May 2001 21:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: phma@oltronics.net To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] mi cnino cmima Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 21:17:42 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29.2] Content-Type: text/plain References: <9d69ag+30p6@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9d69ag+30p6@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0105072146010G.00655@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com From: Pierre Abbat On Mon, 07 May 2001, yahoo@gdyke.org wrote: >Coi le tavla be fo la lojban. .i la greg. cmene mi .i xabju la suis. .i >nanla paze. .i do se bangu le fraso ji le dotco ji le bangrtalo ji le banglromance? >And that's about as far as I'll go in lojban this time (was most of it >right?). You should have said: coi le tavla be fo la lojban. .i zo greg. cmene mi .i mi xabju la suis. .i mi nanla li paze {la greg cmene mi} means that you are your name - this is called a use-mention confusion. {nanla paze} is expecting a noun (we call them "sumti", which is a use in the sentence, not a part of speech; there is no such part of speech as a noun in Lojban; all nouns are either proper nouns (cmene) or verbs (brivla) with an article) so if you said {nanla paze skami} that means "a boy seventeen computers old". {li} makes a sumti out of the number. >I've only been studying lojban for a week. I was wanting to >translate a children's stoy which goes something in the lines of : >"this is the house that jack built, this is the malt that lay in the >house that jack built, this is the rat that ate the malt that lay in >the house that jack built. etc." I got no further than the first >sentence. Here are various possibilities: > >la djak. zbasu le dinju > >"jack built the house" (it is a building, as jack seems to have no >intention of living it) > >le dinju co se zbasu la djak. {dinju co se zbasu} is preceded by an article so {be} is required for what you mean. This is a possible beginning of a sentence that states some relation between the building that was made and Jack, for instance {le dinju co se zbasu la djak bramau}, but it is not a complete sentence by itself. >le dinju co se zbasu be la djak. drani >le zbasu be la djak dinju That means "the building having something to do with what made Jack". >le dinju poi la djak. zbasu (is there confusion that the house may have >built jack here?) Not according to jbofi'e, but if you want to make it clear, add {ke'a} in the appropriate place. >le dinju poi la djak. ke'a zbasu > >at least two of these must mean "The house that jack built" (as a title >for the story). Of those that are right, which is the most appropriate? > >ti zbasu be la djak. dinju >le ti dinju poi la jack. zbasu >ti dinju co se zbasu be la djak. > >Again I'm confused ; what I'm trying to say is: "this is the house that >jack built." I would say {le vi dinju cu se zbasu la djak.}. Sentences with "is" often come out completely different in Lojban. >co'o > >greg. That means "Bye" and you're addressing Greg. mu'omi'e pier.