Subject: Re: decline of the english language

From: "A.W.T." <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 12:56:23 -0000

--- In lojban@y..., "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" <lojbab@l...> wrote:
> At 11:56 PM 05/19/2001 +0200, =?utf-8?q?Bj=C3=B6rn=20Gohla?= wrote:
> >coi rodo
> >in the lojban faq it reads:
> > ...
> > This dominance, and a heritage of colonialism
> > and imperialism that built resentment towards American and Euro=
pean
> > impositions on native culture, has caused recent movements in o=
ther
> > countries away from English. The rising influence of Japan and=

> > other countries on world economics, science, and technology mak=
es 
> > further
> > declines in English's universality likely.
> > ...
> >
> >when was this written?
> 
> First written in 1989, but still true today.
> 
> >my experience is the exact opposite. in fact
> >being a cand. phys. all the advanced literature i use is in english, eit=
her
> >because it will not be available in german for a long time or it is chea=
per
> >anyway.
> 
> In science, English is the dominant international language, but there has=
 
> been a succession of international languages (Latin, then French, then 
> German and Russian as well as English) so that it is hard to predict the =

> future. But on the Internet, the percentage of postings not in English i=
s 
> rising steadily.

Recently, there was a nice and refreshing article by Marcia Pally from "New=
York Times" published in "Die Süddeutsche Zeitung" 
and titled in the German version (partly translated) as "For das Echte, the=
re is kein Ersatz - With languages, there's no purity 
requirement: dominant English itself is a bastard". The article's dealing w=
ith the misgivings (mainly) in France, Germany - but 
even in Romania(!) etc. fearing the bastardization of their national langua=
ges by the "English" language, ... concluding with "tune in 
to English - this kvetching is really fucked off" (Also, tuned euch ein ins=
Englische - dieses Kvetching [Jiddisch, auch ein deutscher 
Dialekt], dieses Jammern ist doch abgefuckt). Essentially, it states that t=
here's no harm for languages being influenced/mixed up 
with others, otherwise (the non-Latin-bastardized) French would be kind of =
a celtic German and (without Greek influence) 
interpreters in the UN would keep on murmuring some Aramaic. "English" its=
elf originally isn't/wasn't anything else than a 
slovenly muddle of German and French*, the language in rural Texas is gramm=
atically unanalyzable and in Scotland or Wales 
existing no English at all. (* Out of the mainstream, e.g. in the Bronx, it=
's something else anyway as the a lecture's title, given of 
the Applied Linguistics Conference, is demonstrating: "You gon' be ma bitch=
boy - Hegemonial building of identity in narratives 
(?!)".)

My own point on this issue always has been comparable to that: The common a=
nd wide spread use of the English language (e.g. by 
people like me!), be it all around the world, in the former colonies, in Au=
stralia, the US, Scotland, Wales, Ireland - or even outside 
the British Royal Family ;-) - did and still is doing "harm" to the languag=
e. But should this be lamented? Should we complain about 
the fact that modern "American" structurally has shifted from a flective to=
an isolate-type monosyllabic language comparable to 
Chinese? This is giving me the cue: I'm sure that "English" will still be g=
oing on to be the "leading" and pre-dominant language in 
the world for a while, the "lingua franca" for at least some more decades o=
f this new century. But it always only had depended on 
political power and influence to assign this role to a language regardless=
of its grammar being difficult to learn or its vocabulary 
being hard to pronounce (English!!) or memorize. So, I'd say - it's Chinese=
we all will have to learn in order to communicate with 
each other in the future! Forget Japanese! (BTW, the modern Uighur romaniza=
tion - which is all ASCII! - would be much more 
appropriate for the Net than Hanyu Pinyin - without the tones expressed. Bu=
t - again - it only depends on political power and not 
reason. So I'd at least -nontheless hopelessly - beg for future use of Gwoy=
eu Romatzyh on the Net!)

Until then our "lingua franca" surely will go on developing in the *modern =
trend* along the Churchill words "Yunno, make a like a 
fuckin list of yunno like German words in like yunno English to show the yu=
nno the fuckin language, yunno like the fuckin bond" 
(Folks are forever wanting me to make lists of German words in English to s=
how the language bond).

co'o mi'e .aulun.