Subject: Re: [lojban] decline of the english language

From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 19:33:44 -0400

At 04:32 PM 05/20/2001 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote:
>la lojbab cusku di'e
> >But on the Internet, the percentage of postings not in English is
> >rising steadily.
>
>But that is unrelated to any decline of the English language,
>it only means that English speakers got there first and now others
>are catching up.

But it was English dominance of the Internet that sparked the last round of 
"English is inevitable". The fact that non-English is catching up shows 
that alternatives still exist, though it isn't clear that any single 
language will overwhelm others. I agree with aulun that Chinese will 
eventually be a serious contender.

>The percentage of English on the Internet still
>exceeds by far the percentage of English speakers in the world,
>so it is only to be expected that the percentage of postings not
>in English should keep rising even as the percentage of people who
>can speak or understand some English also rises.

But what is the equilibrium state? I don't think it will be at a much 
higher level of English use than at present.

> >Meanwhile in Japan, while every kid
> >supposedly is taught English for several years, few actually reach any
> >level of skill in the language.
>
>As opposed to some time in the past when they did? Otherwise I don't
>see where the decline is.

The lack of gain means that decline is inevitable as alternatives for 
international communication come to the fore (and the rise of non-English 
on the Internet is a reason to expect that people will have a choice other 
than to learn English.

> >(the trend away from requiring foreign
> >languages in US schools also seems to be reversing in the last decade, but
> >not in favor of German or Russian which are being studied less than when I
> >attended school in the 60s).
>
>I read an article in the New York Times recently about how the US is
>becoming bilingual. It sounded mostly like journalistic crap to me,
>but even if Spanish does gain ground in the US that doesn't diminish
>the role of English as the international language of the world today.

Spanish is gaining by the simple fact that there are parts of this country 
where Hispanics are the largest minority or even the majority (the 
Southwest and Florida). Around here we have multiple cable channels in 
Spanish available now, and Spanish is the most common language heard behind 
the counter at any fast food restaurant, so people get used to hearing 
it. Americans still don't actively seek out learning Spanish or any 
foreign language, and few Americans other than Hispanics are really 
"bilingual", but Spanish has become useful enough in much of the country 
that people don't resist learning it as much as they traditionally have, 
especially younger people.

lojbab
--
lojbab [email-masked]
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org