From robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx Mon Apr 26 09:25:39 1999
X-Digest-Num: 125
Message-ID: <44114.125.719.959273824@eGroups.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:25:39 +0300
From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Masses [was Re: mut]

la xorxes. cusku di'e

> The reason that I think masses are more fundamental is that, roughly
> speaking, with masses one sentence refers to one situation, but
> with many individuals one sentence refers to many situations.
>
> lei ci nixli cu dunda lei cukta lei re nanla
> The three girls gave the book(s) to the two boys.
>
> That's one event being described.
>
> le ci nixli cu dunda le mu cukta le re nanla
> Each of the three girls gave each of the five books
> to each of the two boys.
>
> That's thirty events being described, with the five books
> changing hands over and over again.
>

I guess Jorge and I are never going to see eye to eye on articles! I see {lei}
and {loi} as ways of clarifying {le} and {lo}. So

mi se batci loi ci gerku

definitely means that I was bitten by a pack of three dogs. But

mi se batci lo ci gerku

could mean that I was bitten by one dog in the morning, one in the afternoon and
one in the evening, or even that I have been bitten by three dogs in my life
(though in this case we'd probably want to clarify it e.g. with {ze'epu}). On
the other hand, it could still mean that I was bitten by a pack of three dogs,
because whether I view them as a mass or as three individual dogs is subjective.

The classic example for distinguishing between individual and mass articles is,
IIRC,

le(i) ci prenu cu bevri le pipno

With {lei} it's straightforward - they get together and carry the piano. With
{le} the standard interpreation would be that ko'a, ko'e and ko'o individually
carry the piano on three separate occasions. However, just to be controversial,
I shall propose that with {le} it is also possible that they carried the piano at
the same time, which from the point of view of the observer is the same as them
carrying the piano _en masse_.

du'u le ci prenu cu bevri le pipno kei nibli du'u le prenu goi ko'a cu bevri le
pipno kei .e du'u le prenu goi ko'e cu bevri le pipno kei .e du'u le prenu goi
ko'o cu bevri le pipno .i pe'i la'e ko'a .e ko'e .e ko'o cavi bevri le pipno kei
du la'e lei ci prenu goi ko'a .e ko'e .e ko'o cavi bevri le pipno

.uo.a'i

co'o mi'e robin.