From jjllambias@hotmail.com Thu May 24 20:06:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 25 May 2001 03:06:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 99878 invoked from network); 25 May 2001 03:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 May 2001 03:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.246) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 May 2001 03:06:09 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:06:09 -0700 Received: from 200.69.11.98 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 May 2001 03:06:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.69.11.98] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lessons Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 03:06:08 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2001 03:06:09.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[A568D670:01C0E4C7] From: "Jorge Llambias" la robyspir cusku di'e >One more reply - toward the end of the "Subjunctive" thread, Jorge comes to >this conclusion, which is indeed clear but it _supports_ the idea that >ganai...gi means if...then. I don't think anyone disagrees that ganai...gi... means if...then. The question is whether if...then always means ganai...gi. One answer is that it probably does, but often not in a straightforward way. For example, in the case of subjunctives, a direct translation as ganai...gi is not very good. To say "If X were so then Y would be so" one would need a prenex along the lines of "In all possible worlds: ganai X gi Y". In English this prenex is hidden in the form of the subjunctive/conditional mood. In Lojban we don't have anything like that, and just ignoring it is not a good solution. > ganai ti solji gi mi ba citka le mi mapku > "If this is made of gold, then I will eat my hat." Compare with: "If this were made of gold, then I would eat my hat." Assuming "this" is not made of gold, I have no problem asserting the first sentence, but I certainly don't want to assert the second one. They can't both be translated by the same Lojban sentence. co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.