From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri May 25 09:17:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 25 May 2001 16:17:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 2149 invoked from network); 25 May 2001 16:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 May 2001 16:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.18) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 May 2001 16:14:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:14:14 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.40 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 May 2001 16:14:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.40] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lessons Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:14:13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2001 16:14:14.0189 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD8325D0:01C0E535] From: "Jorge Llambias" la rab spir cusku di'e >Okay, then we're essentially in agreement. ganai...gi and go...gi are >legitimate ways of saying if...then as long as you're not basing it on a >situation that is likely to be untrue. That part is what requires the >'subjunctive'. That's not what I'm saying. The counterfactuals are just one example where a simple ganai...gi won't work. I don't think they are the only case. And I don't think it really has to do with likelihood, for example "if you hadn't won the lottery, you wouldn't be rich" is based on a situation that was very likely to be true (i.e. not winning the lotery). >So... do we need a new tense for this? Perhaps use a couple of 'x' cmavo to >express "in another universe" or "in all possible universes" and one to >return >to the universe of what we believe to be true? Something like that, yes, except I think it has to be a UI, not a tense, and I'm not sure we need a new cmavo, we may already have what we need. For example, I think we can understand {ei} to mean "in an ideal world" (essentially the job of "should" in English) {a'o} to mean "in my favourite possible world" and {au} "in my favourite impossible world", or something like that, I still haven't worked out all the details, but it looks promising. I'd rather be sure of what we already have before bringing in new cmavo. co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.