From lojbab@lojban.org Sun May 27 12:12:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 27 May 2001 19:12:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 61715 invoked from network); 27 May 2001 19:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 May 2001 19:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-3.cais.net) (205.252.14.73) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 May 2001 19:12:58 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (209-8-89-133.dynamic.cais.com [209.8.89.133]) by stmpy-3.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4RJCtK69886 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 15:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010527151009.00ad3b50@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 15:14:56 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Request for grammar clarifications In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 02:55 PM 05/27/2001 -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: >On Sun, 27 May 2001, Nick Nicholas wrote: > > 1) de'i > > > > Is it legal to say {ti xatra de'i li pano}, and by consequence {le xatra be > > de'i li pano}? Does the date cmavo introduce a date *conventionally* > > associated with the predicate (as I remember it), so that you can say this > > is a letter on the tenth? Or is {de'i} tantamount to {ca}, deriving its > > semantics *only* from {detri}, in which case such an utterance would be > > misleading? (It's a letter on the tenth, but it's still a letter today.) In > > other words, does {de'i} correspond to "dated", or to "on"? > > >The cmavo list says "ti'u" is for letters. It also says that de'i is for letters. I'm not sure I understand what the contention is otherwise, unless we are seeing a resurfacing of the desire to have the modals taken in a most restrictive semantic interpretation so that they cannot be useful. Originally of course the modals only metaphorically referred back to the source gismu, but by the time of the book had evolved to me more definitionally tied so as to at least require the converters to access other-than 1st places of the source gismu. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org