Subject: Re: [lojban] More Alice

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 02:24:22

la pycyn cusku di'e

>Well, it was a play with words, but hardly a play ON words and pretty 
>surely
>not a pun (maybe 2/3, as the saying goes -- but I doubt that).

I probably don't understand the meaning of "pun" then. In fact
there is no common word like it in Spanish, we just say "juego
de palabras" (wordplay).

In any case, in the meantime I think I have a slightly improved
version (thanks to the useful comments!):

i le ralju cu junri ke tolcitno cakyrespa gi'e se cmene lu ractu
cafmi'a li'u mi'a
The master was a _solemn_ old Turtle we used to call 'Rabbit
Often-Laugher'

i lu ki'u ma do'o te cmene ra lu ractu cafmi'a li'u va'o le nu ra
genai ractu ginai cafmi'a sei la alis te preti li'u
"Why did you call him Rabbit Often-Laugher, if he was neither a
rabbit nor an often-laugher?" Alice asked.

i mi'a te cmene ra lu ractu cafmi'a li'u ki'u le nu ra ctuca mi'a
sei le jitfa cakyrespa cu fange cusku
"We called him Rabbit Often-Laugher because he taught us,' said
the Mock Turtle angrily

Solemn "Often-Laugher" is actually not bad at all, since it fits
well with the cyclothymic nature of the Mock Turtle, and also the
"Laughing and Grief" taught by the Classical master.

>The point is,
>if you try to translate a nearly perfect pun, you ought not be satisfied 
>with
>a really imperfect one;

I was not really satisfied with it. The whole thing is still
a work in progress. I will spare you for the moment what I have
done to the "lessons" (that "lessen" from day to day).

>a total miss is better (maybe with the note that "it
>loses something inn the translation").

I think you're right. Obviously there will be some misses, any
translation is like that, not just into Lojban. But it doesn't
hurt to try and explore a little before giving up. I don't
have anything yet for "no wise fish would go anywhere without a
porpoise".

>The Lobster Quadrille looks passable in that (no surprise here -- like
>Chinese, it is hard not to rhyme in Lojban) it rhymes fairly closely, but 
>it
>is not a quadrille or any other regular dance step, though the chorus comes
>close.

Could you be more specific? I thought I had matched the English rhythm
pretty well. Where did I miss? It is certainly modifyable where needed.

>Is it time for another round on what Lojban poetry will be like, given that
>neither rhyme nor rhythm are likely to play major roles? In any case, a
>dance would be a bad candidate for an early contribution.

Why? I don't understand the defeatism.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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