From lojbab@lojban.org Tue Jun 05 14:55:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 21:55:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 85335 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 21:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 21:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-2.cais.net) (205.252.14.72) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 21:55:05 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic215.cl8.cais.net [205.177.20.215]) by stmpy-2.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f55Lt3440132 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010605173802.00ddf7d0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:48:26 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: Rabbity Sand-Laugher In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" >.iaru'e ku'i mapti le do na'o selsku .i za'a do na'o gunta le mutce >kamfinti pilno mu'u la maikl. .i do ba'o fanta dada'o poi nalseldjuno ku'o >ca'o le nanca be li 30 >Aside from being unsure what empathetic opining is, I am glad to see that >someone agrees that translating Alice is evil. I don''t wonder at your >reluctance in admitting this nore even at your wonder and disbelief, but it >is nice to have you along. [I know you don't mean that, but it is what you >say.] I am not sure what aggressive weak agreement is either, but then I was >unaware that I had a typical expression; I thought I was all over the place. At 10:53 AM 06/05/2001 -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 6/5/2001 12:55:26 AM Central Daylight Time, >xod@sixgirls.org writes: >>>read what I wrote, please read the original Lojban; don't rely upon pc's >>faulty translations, which are sometimes the opposite of what I said. >> >>For instance, pc claimed (and reiterated) that translating Alice was >>"evil". I rather don't agree.> > >Well, I did not in fact claim that: I said I would probably have (given the >choices between "foolish" and "evil" for two events) reversed xod's >choices. >Happily ther were other choices and I made those. And xod does indeed >*assert* that translating Alice is evil. Now pc, >you< were (one of?) the earliest to note that attitudinals might change an apparent assertion into something else; I recall mention of possible worlds and the like. The following of the bridi with "ianai" clearly makes the statement NOT an assertion (or rather renders a valid translation as "Translating Alice is evil, NOT!" > xod also *expresses* a number of >emotional responses to that claim, some of them apparently at variance with >the claim made -- though they might be merely shock at finding oneself >making such a claim. I am still unsure what empathetic opining is --xod got >so into my head that agreement resulted? The sentence in question is < >.a'unaicai pe'idai le nu fanva la .alis. cu palci .ianai .u'e > in which the >only assertion is < le nu fanva la .alis. cu palci >; the rest is emotive >response. I suspect xod meant the assertion to be in quotes or some of the >emotive expressions to be assertions to the effect that xod reesponded thus >to my assertion that... But what is written is written, and I refuse to be >blamed for taking people at their word. I encourage xod to continue exploring attitudinals. No one will learn them if they are not used, and the are potentially one of the strongest features of the language. I will remind people at this point that xod has uniquely committed to come to LogFest 2001 (less than 2 months away now) prepared to speak ONLY Lojban during that gathering. He cannot do so without exploring the use of the WHOLE language, and we will not be able to understand him unless we have made some efforts to practice at least trying to understand what he writes (I plead guilty to not even trying, unlike pc who sets a worthy example in trying to read what xod writes in Lojban and answering it, even if he reads something into what xod writes other than what xod intended). lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org