Subject: Re: [lojban] More Alice

From: Edward Cherlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:18:25 -0700

At 2:24 AM +0000 6/4/01, Jorge Llambias wrote:
>la pycyn cusku di'e
>
>>Well, it was a play with words, but hardly a play ON words and pretty
>>surely
>>not a pun (maybe 2/3, as the saying goes -- but I doubt that).
>
>I probably don't understand the meaning of "pun" then. In fact
>there is no common word like it in Spanish, we just say "juego
>de palabras" (wordplay).

A pun requires the substitution of similar-sounding words in a 
well-known phrase, or the use of two separate meanings of a word or 
phrase. It is widely held that the outcome of a successful pun is 
groans rather than laughter.

"A pun is the lowest form of wit," says the critic.
"A bun is the lowest form of wheat," says the punster.

Punster: "I can make a pun on any subject."
Challenger: "Make a pun on the King, then."
Punster: "The king is not a subject."

Some of the more notable practitioners have been

Steve "The Leaning Pizza of Towser" Allen

Piers Anthony, whose Xanth tales run on magic fueled by low-grade 
puns such as exploding pineapples.

Terry Pratchett, who can pun on ideas, not just words. His character 
Rincewind, given the magical power "to find food in the desert", 
picks up a rock and discovers a ham sandwich underneath.

Reginald Bretnor, who originated "Through Time and Space with 
Ferdinand Feghoot", writing under the anagrammatical pseudonym of 
Grendel Briarton. "One man's meat is another man's poi, son."

Isaac Asimov, who also wrote Feghoots.

Spider Robinson, who claims that the ultimate accolade for a pun is 
for the listeners to run screaming into the night while holding their 
noses. In Callahan's Crosstime Saloon and its sequels, regular weekly 
Punday contests are held. On one occasion, Jake tells the story of 
his great-grandfather Stonebender building the pyramids and curing 
yaws. "What's yaws?" asks Callahan suspiciously. "Why, thanks, Mike, 
I'll have a beer."

Dennis Muir and Frank Norden of the BBC radio program My Word. "G. 
Stopes took oinker." "Peeper porter prigged a perk of pickled pauper."

Vladimir Nabokov, who translated "Alice" into Russian.

Anyway, I thought you made a very good pun.

[snip]

> >The Lobster Quadrille looks passable in that (no surprise here -- like
>>Chinese, it is hard not to rhyme in Lojban) it rhymes fairly closely, but
>>it
>>is not a quadrille or any other regular dance step, though the chorus comes
>>close.
>
>Could you be more specific? I thought I had matched the English rhythm
>pretty well. Where did I miss? It is certainly modifyable where needed.

The Lobster Quadrille is based on The Laughter Quadrille, a popular 
dance of the period which I have in an arrangement for recorders. It 
is in a very assertive 2/4 time, requiring strict alternation of 
stressed and unstressed beats.

> >Is it time for another round on what Lojban poetry will be like, given that
>>neither rhyme nor rhythm are likely to play major roles? In any case, a
>>dance would be a bad candidate for an early contribution.
>
>Why? I don't understand the defeatism.

There are all sorts of rhymes, and a variety of non-rhyming forms as 
well. How about a sestina?

Consider these, from http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~ian/glossary.html.

Rhyme:
normally end-rhyme, that is, lines of verse characterized by the 
consonance of terminal words or syllables. Rhymed words 
conventionally share all sounds following the word's last stressed 
syllable. Thus "tenacity" and "mendacity" rhyme, but not "jaundice" 
and "John does," or "tomboy" and "calm bay." The rhyme scheme is the 
pattern of end-rhymes in a stanza.
*	Amphisbaenic rhyme: a reversed rhyme, such as "trot" and "tort."
*	Broken rhyme: rhyming with an initial or medial syllable of a 
word that is split between two lines with a hyphen.
*	Eye rhyme: words rhyming only as spelled, not as pronounced, 
and hence not a perfect or true rhyme. An example is "through" and 
"slough."
*	Feminine rhyme: gendered expression for rhymes ending in one 
or more unstressed syllables, such as "fruity" and "booty." The 
expressions light, weak or multi-syllable rhyme avoid the sexist bias.
*	Half-rhyme: rhyming only with the consonants in the terminal 
syllable(s). Examples would include "tell"/"toll" and 
"concrete"/"litcrit". Also termed `off-rhyme' and `slant rhyme.' See 
consonance.
*	Initial rhyme: see alliteration.
*	Internal rhyme: rhymes found inside the lines, as well as 
(usually) at the end of the lines.
*	Masculine rhyme: gendered expression for rhymes ending in a 
stressed syllable, such as "hells" and "bells." The expressions 
strong or one-syllable rhyme avoid the sexist bias.
*	Monorhyme: the use of only one rhyme in a stanza. An example 
is Dante Gabriel Rossetti's "The Woodspurge."
*	Pararhyme: Edmund Blunden's term for double consonance, where 
different vowels appear within identical consonant pairs (a feature 
of Wilfrid Owens' verse).
*	Tail rhyme: a stanza with a tail, tag, or extra short line 
that may rhyme with another such line later on. Chaucer's tale of Sir 
Thopas is one example.
*	Rich rhyme: rhymes identical in sound (or spelling) but 
semantically different, e.g., "Felicity was present | To pick up her 
present."
*	Synthetic rhyme: a forced rhyme in which the spelling and 
sound of a word are distorted.
*	Vowell rhyme: see assonance.
See also alliteration, assonance, consonance, onomatopoeia, and rime couée.

-- 

Edward Cherlin
Generalist
"A knot!" exclaimed Alice. "Oh, do let me help to undo it."
Alice in Wonderland