Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: Rabbity Sand-Laugher

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:39:48 EDT

In a message dated 6/5/2001 4:02:30 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> . Of course, they should not publish their first shot until they have
> >some reason to think they are going to do a fair job of it.
> 
> I will disagree with this. We WANT new people learning the language to try 
> to write in Lojban - anything, whether it be translation or original 
> writing. If they publish it on the list, or on the CVS site which clearly 
> is an extension of the list in the way it is used (and because of the 
> reports that are posted here of changes thereto), then this is a way to 
> seek comments on ones efforts to learn the language.
> 

Easy for you to say, since you rarely have time to read the stuff (not a 
complaint, since what takes your time is important, but...). I have spent a 
couple of hours trying to make some -- any -- sense out pieces that people 
tossed off in a couple of minutes then put out on the web (or into a letter 
in the old days) without even trying to check it. That is rude at best, 
insulting at a slightly more careful thought -- the writer wants someone else 
to do the work that is rightly his, since he started the process. Newbies 
get a pass until they stock up with the appropriate goodies -- and we are lax 
about telling them where those things are, I think -- but then they have 
responsibilities as members of the community to be as careful (or more, all 
things considered) as the established members. Yes, we want people to try, 
but not to produce shoddy stuff for others to work over -- you can learn a 
lot reading the outprint of jbofi'e (or so I am told, mine never gives 
outputs -- another reason why I don't write Lojban) and it is even faster 
than waiting for the list to mention the same things.

<But I do think that advise and comment should generally be encouraging and 
positive, or it will turn people off:>
Hey, if it's wrong, it's wrong. But you can explain what why in a friendly 
and helpful way and suggest better moves and so on.

<I think we would be much more fruitful in this regard by encouraging 
original writing in Lojban rather than translation.  I'd love to see some 
new ckafybarja writings.>

Amen: not copyright problems, no insulted dead authors, and so on. Of 
course, it does leave the "What have you in the language" part undealt with, 
but I wonder how important that is, really.

<.  Some
>bits get settled.

Yes, and your summaries of the bits that get settled have been a useful 
service.  Can I suggest collecting them and putting them up, now that you 
are setting up Lojban stuff on your website.  Much easier than searching 
the archives (and you have the privilege of revising what you have 
summarized earlier in case things have changed since then).>

Yeah, I think that would be better than trying to summarize the old arguments 
-- I tend to get lost in one side or the other.