From lojbab@lojban.org Fri Jun 08 18:23:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 9 Jun 2001 01:23:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 98899 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 01:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Jun 2001 01:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-1.cais.net) (205.252.14.71) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 01:23:07 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic223.cl8.cais.net [205.177.20.223]) by stmpy-1.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f591N2e84418 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010608211246.00cb7300@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 21:29:00 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] An approach to attitudinals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 12:54 AM 06/09/2001 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: >la djan cusku di'e > >That is the "propositional attitude" sense of "a'o". But it too > >has a "pure emotion sense" as well: "a'o mi cevni le du'u > krici > > >la cevni cu zasti" probably does not mean "I hope that I believe > >that God exists", > >That's what I would understand from it. > > >but rather "I believe that God exists > >(which gives me hope)." > >If {a'o} can indeed have these two meanings then it is hopelessly >ambiguous. It is not hopelessly ambiguous, though Cowan's translation may have been. His English does not make clear that it is the belief that gives hope and not the existence. You would interpret the former IFF you had reason to suspect that the speaker did not know what he believed, and the latter if he did. All you have is the proposition and the speaker's attitude towards that proposition. If the proposition is known to reflect reality, then it is the reality that is provoking the emotional response. If the proposition is not known to reflect reality, it can only be the possible world wherein it is true that provokes the emotional response. >{a'o le truralju cu stace} "I hope the president is >honest", or "the president is honest, which gives me hope". >I have only seen it used with the first sense. Both versions are possible because we do not what is hoped for when expressing .a'o. All we know is that the speaker feels hope when confronted with the proposition of the president being honest. lesu'u le truralju cu stace cu rinka le nu ko'a pacna is the closest propositional equivalent, and we don't know the x2 of pacna or the specific abstractor that su'u represents. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org