From richardt@flash.net Mon Jun 11 20:30:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: richardt@flash.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 03:30:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 13879 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 03:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 03:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pimout4-int.prodigy.net) (207.115.63.103) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 03:30:54 -0000 Received: from flash.net ([216.51.105.116]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5C3Umm82016; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:30:48 -0400 Sender: richardt@pimout4-int.prodigy.net Message-ID: <3B257C43.AE1EB574@flash.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:19:47 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-22smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jorge Llambias Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: zi'o and modals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Richard Todd Jorge Llambias wrote: >{ko'a botpi fo no da} means {ko'a na botpi fo da}. >So we should not call ko'a a botpi if it doesn't botpi. That is what I was missing! Thank you! So, if we take a full sentence: ti botpi le djacu le blaci noda I was interpreting it as "this is a glass bottle of water with no x that is a cap." I now see it as "It is false that this is a glass bottle with water and some cap x." So, to take the cap out of it, I could not use {zo'e}. That's finally clear to me. Sorry I was so dense, and thanks, everyone, for your help! Except, now it bothers me even more that {ti botpi fo zi'o} doesn't exclude the set of all bottles that *do* have caps. The way it is, how would you say, unambiguously, that "this is a botpi, except without a cap"? Richard