From richardt@flash.net Tue Jun 12 17:14:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: richardt@flash.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 00:14:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12434 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 23:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pimout1-int.prodigy.net) (207.115.63.77) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:40:43 -0000 Received: from flash.net ([216.51.104.247]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5CNeeQ103158; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:40:40 -0400 Sender: richardt@pimout1-int.prodigy.net Message-ID: <3B2697D2.C77D6EC7@flash.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:29:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-22smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jorge Llambias Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: zi'o and modals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Richard Todd Jorge Llambias wrote: > >Otherwise, why would the speaker choose {fo noda}, > >when {noda} in any position has a similar effect? > > It doesn't really have the same effect. Your sentence is compatible, > for example, with: > > ti botpi le vanju le blaci le gacri > > This one is not compatible with: > > ti botpi noda le blaci le gacri > > So where you put noda matters. Not if the sentence is really about {le badna}. That's really my point. The words in the sentence don't prevent it from referring to {le badna}, but the way our minds work (we _want_ the placement of noda to matter, since we're happiest when things have a reason) tries to hold us somewhat to our concept of {botpi} (though as you say, it cannot be an authentic {botpi}). > ti dunda le djacu noda > > Would you assume that ti is a giver? By the same logic above I think you cannot assume much at all about {ti}, (these sentences are really saying very little, when you think about it!). I'm wondering now about what the listener is likely to assume from it. And, like you, I am not sure if its the english concepts interfering or not. I think all of this is very interesting. r