From xod@sixgirls.org Tue Jun 12 17:45:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 00:45:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 67707 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 00:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:41:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5D0f1X20056 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:41:00 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: zi'o and modals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Jorge Llambias wrote: > >Except, now it bothers me even more that {ti botpi fo zi'o} doesn't > >exclude the set of all bottles that *do* have caps. The way it is, how > >would you say, unambiguously, that "this is a botpi, except without a > >cap"? > > You could say for example: > > ti botpi fo zi'o secau lo gacri > > but you are not really talking about a botpi there, zi'o changes > the realtionship to something else, and botpi is the weirdly > specific bottle-content-material-cap relationship. This fundamentalism can be confining. People regularly use klama for walking, but there really is no vehicle involved. If you want to get surreal enough, and call a shoe a vehicle, then you can call a nonexistent cap a sort of cap, just like zero is a number and black is a color, and the null set is a set. How far should we take this? ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!