From ragnarok@pobox.com Wed Jun 13 09:06:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 16:06:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 80298 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 15:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 15:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO intrex.net) (209.42.192.246) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 15:48:29 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.34] by intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB5B7A410078; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:48:43 -0400 Reply-To: To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:44:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010613104438.00dca3d0@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" >Myself, I am not sure that we won't eventually have Lojban attitudinals >that are NOT translatable to other languages. You mean they aren't already untranslatable? I'm beginning to think the heart of the debate about assertions comes from a perception that they can't just express a detached feeling of hope on the one hand and that happiness doesn't affect the truth value on the other hand - a holdover from English. This is why we get questions like 'Right. And what is the non-propositional sense of {ai}? "I'm feeling intentuous today"?' which comes from a difficulty for English speakers to fathom new ways of describing emotions we've felt our whole lives. I still don't get the propositional sense of .ui, but I consider that to be my own cultural myopia. So if the fact that attitudinals can't be translated is proof of the SWH, then lojban. has served its purpose. .ui.ui.ua.u'asai .ua.uo.ui.u'asai .uo.ua.ua.u'asai .ua.uo.ui.u'acai --la kreig.daniyl 'segu temci fa le bavli gi mi'o ba renvi lo purci .i ga la fonxa cu janbe gi du mi' -la djimis.BYFet xy.sy. gubmau ckiku cmesanji: 0x5C3A1E74