From rob@twcny.rr.com Wed Jun 13 13:25:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rob@twcny.rr.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 20:25:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 617 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 20:24:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 20:24:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailout3-0.nyroc.rr.com) (24.92.226.118) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 20:24:14 -0000 Received: from mail1.twcny.rr.com (mail1-1 [24.92.226.139]) by mailout3-0.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.2/RoadRunner 1.03) with ESMTP id f5DKMlA06450 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from riff ([24.95.175.101]) by mail1.twcny.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:22:49 -0400 Received: from rob by riff with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 15AH7T-0000Br-00 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:20:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:20:02 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] gismu for attitudinals Message-ID: <20010613162002.B643@twcny.rr.com> Reply-To: rob@twcny.rr.com References: <2b.16cf629b.28591314@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2b.16cf629b.28591314@aol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.18i X-Is-It-Not-Nifty: www.sluggy.com From: Rob Speer On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 03:03:48PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > > Here's what I think each VV attitudinal means at the beginning of a sentence. > > > I haven't checked this list carefully, but I want to put in a warning about > this enterprise. So far as I can tell, even the revised attitudinal > proposals do not turn bridi with attitudinals attached into asasertions about > my attitudes, as these sentence fragments seem to do. It continues, even if > the factive-fictive division comes to hold across the board, to be important > to distinguish between expressing an attitude and claiming to have one. If > the attitudinals in some position or other are claim makers, then I -- and I > hope every other careful Lojbanist -- will oppose *that* plan. They're not claim makers. However, they express emotions which happen to be very similar to claims you could make in Lojban, and not so similar to the claims you would make in English. This is the point I'm trying to make. -- Rob Speer