From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Jun 13 17:18:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 Jun 2001 00:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 56179 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 00:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 00:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.80) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 00:18:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:18:50 -0700 Received: from 200.69.11.98 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:18:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.69.11.98] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] gismu for attitudinals Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:18:50 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2001 00:18:50.0407 (UTC) FILETIME=[96232B70:01C0F467] From: "Jorge Llambias" Finding the right gismu or other brivla to describe in Lojban what the attitudinal is used for is very necessary. When we write a Lojban-Lojban dictionary (and hopefully it will be sooner rather than later), we will have to explain in Lojban the meaning of each attitudinal, and no doubt the word {gleki} will be prominent in the explanation of what {ui} means. This is of course not a dictionary definition, but I can say, for example: {ca le nu mi cusku zo ui kei mi jarco le nu mi gleki}. I think Rob's list is an excellent start. I will only make some comments about a couple which I'm not sure I agree with: >.a'e mi cikna ku'i lenu ... I don't know. I assume you mean {ki'u}, but I would think {a'e} marks what you are alert about, rather than why you are alert, or what made you alert. I don't recall seeing it in use though. >.ai mi ba gasnu lenu ... I prefer {mi zukte fi le nu ...} >.e'e mi certu lenu ... This is not how I use {e'e}, and I have been using it often lately (including in the Alice translation). I use it in the sense of "encouragement", "you can do it!", "go for it!". This also fits with the rest of the e-series as imperative-types. >.e'i mi rinju fi lenu ... There is one other imperative-type that I have often felt the need for. I haven't found a simple way to express the "I dare you!" attitude. I am always very tempted to enlist {e'i} for this service, although it is harder to twist the keyword to fit it. >.ei mi bilga lenu ... {ei} is much more general than that. More like {mi cinmo le nu le munje cu bilga le nu...} mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.