From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Jun 15 17:20:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 00:20:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 15684 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 00:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 00:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.119) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 00:20:32 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:20:32 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.57 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:20:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.57] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] The "system" of attitudinals Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:20:31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2001 00:20:32.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[2796FE90:01C0F5FA] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cdi'e cusku >{a'o mi klama le zarci} [...] >At least some Lojbanist have used this sentence or at least some of the >variants to both assert that I do go to the store and to express a hope for >some unspecified event possibly consequent upon that trip -- or even just a >conswquent feeling of hopefulness, without a discernible object. I have only seen claims that such use would be possible, I haven't seen anyone actually using it like that, or misunderstanding the other (standard?) use. In fact, nobody has explicitly mentioned yet another possibility for {a'o}: Not "I hope I go to the store", not "I go to the store, which gives me hope", but "I go to the store with hope". Of course, this one only works when {mi} is part of the bridi, and preferrably as an agent, which is a strong recommendation against its use. >Whether or not this latter reading is legitmate now, it clearly represents >a >real situation and one which should, therefore, have a Lojban expression. I propose {a'o ju'a}, hope-and-assert. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.