From pycyn@aol.com Sat Jun 16 15:15:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 22:15:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25228 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 22:15:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 22:15:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m10.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.165) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 22:15:25 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.128.2474be (1759) for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <128.2474be.285d3474@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:15:16 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] The "system" of attitudinals To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_128.2474be.285d3474_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 From: pycyn@aol.com --part1_128.2474be.285d3474_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/2001 7:24:57 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: > >At least some Lojbanist have used this sentence or at least some of the > >variants to both assert that I do go to the store and to express a hope for > >some unspecified event possibly consequent upon that trip -- or even just a > >conswquent feeling of hopefulness, without a discernible object. > > I have only seen claims that such use would be possible, I haven't > seen anyone actually using it like that, or misunderstanding the > other (standard?) use. > John Cowan on July 8 I think there are other cases from John and Lojbab. Yes, no one has. Can you explain further, since I am not sure just what is involved. --part1_128.2474be.285d3474_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/2001 7:24:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:


>At least some Lojbanist have used this sentence or at least some of the
>variants to both assert that I do go to the store and to express a hope for
>some unspecified event possibly consequent upon that trip -- or even just a
>conswquent feeling of hopefulness, without a discernible object.

I have only seen claims that such use would be possible, I haven't
seen anyone actually using it like that, or misunderstanding the
other (standard?) use.


John Cowan on July 8
<That is the "propositional attitude" sense of "a'o".  But it too
has a "pure emotion sense" as well:  "a'o mi cevni le du'u
la cevni cu zasti" probably does not mean "I hope that I believe
that God exists," but rather " believe that God exists
(which gives me hope).">

I think there are other cases from John and Lojbab.

<In fact, nobody has explicitly mentioned yet another possibility
for {a'o}: Not "I hope I go to the store", not "I go to the store,
which gives me hope", but "I go to the store with hope".
Of course, this one only works when {mi} is part of the bridi,
and preferrably as an agent, which is a strong recommendation
against its use.>

Yes, no one has.  Can you explain further, since I am not sure just what is
involved.
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