From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Jun 16 18:48:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 17 Jun 2001 01:48:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 3927 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2001 01:48:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2001 01:48:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.67) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jun 2001 01:48:23 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:48:21 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.40 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 01:48:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.40] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Are attitudinals assertions? (was: Attitudinals again (was: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 01:48:21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2001 01:48:21.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[96DF1780:01C0F6CF] From: "Jorge Llambias" la daniel di'e cusku >Thank you, Anthony, thank you. I haven't received Anthony's post yet, but I agree with everything you quoted from him. >Since you basically said it all in the text quoted above, this is >probably where I should stop, but being foolish and in the need to >rant, I will first pick apart a few contributions of la xorxes i ki'esai ui zo'o >- not >because I dislike him or what he said more than anyone elses >contributions to this thread, I will assume your "not because" is non-assertive! :) > > a'o mi caca'a klama > >He states that he is going. He also expresses a feeling of hope, >which probably is connected to his going, what exactly that >connection is, is not made clear. That's not how {a'o} is used. It is used as in the example in the book (pg. 302) {a'o mi kanryze'a ca le bavlamdei}, to express hope that the indicated proposition is true. >ui mi klama >says that I come, while a'o mi klama says that I merely hope to? Correct. >Isn't that a little on the contradictory side of things? Nope. Some attitudinals don't affect assertiveness, others do. That is general for all indicators, some affect assertiveness, others don't. >Attitudinals express attitudes, if you want to assert anything, >that's what bridi are there for. Right. You can only assert a bridi, but you can also use a bridi for other purposes besides assertions. You can use them to ask questions, to make suggestions, to express intentions and so on, none of which involve making assertions. The attitudinal is never asserted, but it sometimes indicates that the bridi is being used for something other than an assertion. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.