From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Jun 18 10:09:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 Jun 2001 17:09:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 31460 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 17:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 17:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.244) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 17:08:23 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:08:23 -0700 Received: from 200.69.11.29 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:08:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.69.11.29] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] dai harder (was: If it ain't broke, don't fix it (was: an approa... Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:08:23 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2001 17:08:23.0907 (UTC) FILETIME=[4868C330:01C0F819] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e >I would use it in, for example, {la frank. tirna le du'u uidai la >meris. klama ti} , the {ui} being Frank's joy, not the writer's nor the >person from whom he heard it. Why not use {kau} for those indirect indicators? Compare: la frank na djuno le du'u xukau la meris klama ti "Frank does not know whether Mary is coming." la frank facki le du'u uikau la meris klama ti "Frank finds out that yippee! Mary is coming." As for {tirna}, can we really use it in both senses: la frank tirna le nu la meris klama ti "Frank hears Mary coming." ?la frank tirna le du'u la meris klama ti "Frank hears (is told) that Mary is coming." Maybe {la frank tirna lu la meris klama ti li'u}, which would mean we can say {la frank tirna le sedu'u la meris klama ti}. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.