From pycyn@aol.com Tue Jun 19 19:46:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 20 Jun 2001 02:46:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 25406 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 02:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Jun 2001 02:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r10.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.106) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 02:46:57 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.ff.7f6e85c (4231) for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:46:52 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] dai harder (was: If it ain't broke, don't fix it (was: an approa... To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ff.7f6e85c.2861689c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 From: pycyn@aol.com --part1_ff.7f6e85c.2861689c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/19/2001 8:44:50 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: > i do la'e di'u xusra i mi do na tugni i no da zunti le nu do pilno > zo dai le nu sinxa le do se zmanei i je'u a'o do ca'a pilno fi ba'e > su'o da i mi'a pilno ji'o le nu nitcu >=20 Whence comes this necessity in the use of {dai}, without which we have gott= en=20 along these however many years? To be sure, the Book is not very clear abo= ut=20 how to use it (polite version) and there seem to be a number of rival=20 proposals that need to be evaluated. But a need? Not hardly, regardless o= f=20 which plan gets settled on. >la frank jinvi le du'u eikau la meris ti klama > >la frank jdice le du'u eipeikau la meris ti klama > >la frank jinvi le du'u la'akau la meris ti klama > >la frank jinvi le du'u ku'ikau la meris ti klama >Frank does not "think" or "opine" emotions.=A0 Frank emotes them. I don't think I anywhere said he did. How do you say "Frank thinks that Mary should come"? Or "Frank thinks that all flowers should be white"? If you don't like my way of saying it, you should provide a better one.> As for the first stuff, I am unclear where the indirect questions come from= =20 or what they have to do with the translations later: I suppose the first=20 Lojban sentence means something like (though just what is unclear) "Frank= =20 has an opinion about whether Mary should come." I do agree that asking Fra= nk=20 to emote an {ei} seems a bit much -- maybe an overliteral reading of=20 something in the Book about attitudinals. --part1_ff.7f6e85c.2861689c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/19/2001 8:44:50 PM Central Daylight Time,=20
jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:



i do la'e di'u xusra i mi= do na tugni i no da zunti le nu do pilno
zo dai le nu sinxa le do se zmanei i je'u a'o do ca'a pilno fi ba'e
su'o da i mi'a pilno ji'o le nu nitcu



Whence comes this necessity in the use of {dai}, without which we have = gotten=20
along these however many years?  To be sure, the Book is not very = clear about=20
how to use it (polite version) and there seem to be a  number of r= ival=20
proposals that need to be evaluated.  But a need?  Not hardly= , regardless of=20
which plan gets settled on.

<la lojbab cusku di'e

> >la frank jinvi le du'u eikau la meris ti klama
> >la frank jdice le du'u eipeikau la meris ti klama
> >la frank jinvi le du'u la'akau la meris ti klama
> >la frank jinvi le du'u ku'ikau la meris ti klama

>Frank does not "think" or "opine" emotions.=A0 Frank emotes them.

I don't think I anywhere said he did. How do you say
"Frank thinks that Mary should come"? Or "Frank thinks that
all flowers should be white"? If you don't like my way of
saying it, you should provide a better one.>


As for the first stuff, I am unclear where the indirect questions come = from=20
or what they have to do with the translations later: I suppose the firs= t=20
Lojban sentence means something like (though just what is unclear) &nbs= p;"Frank=20
has an opinion about whether Mary should come."  I do agree that a= sking Frank=20
to emote an {ei} seems a bit much -- maybe an overliteral reading of=20
something in the Book about attitudinals.
--part1_ff.7f6e85c.2861689c_boundary--