From xod@sixgirls.org Tue Jun 19 20:59:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 20 Jun 2001 03:59:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 61896 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 03:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Jun 2001 03:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 03:59:52 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5K3xpW21776 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 23:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 23:59:51 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: possible worlds In-Reply-To: <20010619233732.A4343@twcny.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Rob Speer wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:56:14PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/19/2001 8:10:08 PM Central Daylight Time, > > thinkit8@lycos.com writes: > > > > > > > how about this? "if i were rich i'd have a house" goes to > > > "fau le nu mi ricfu kei mi ponse lo zdani". i don't like using the > > > UI cmavo to do this either, but i think there are substitutes. > > > > > > > Nice, but what does it have to do with possible worlds? (the answer "nothing" > > is to its advantage) Is it clearly superior to {ganai mi ricfu gi mi ponse > > lo zdani}. The latter is, I suppose uninterestingly true, the former appears > > to be false or of uncertain -- and uncertainly obtainable -- truth value. > > So, as assertions, the advantage seems to lie with {ganai} form. But if this > > is something else than an assertion, it does seem to move over into the area > > of UI: intentions, hopes, and the like. > > Eep. No. Even I, the vehement supporter of more widespread use of logical > connectives, say that you absolutely can't translate that with {ganai} or > anything of the sort. Since the statement presupposes that you are not rich, > the {ganai mi ricfu} part is necessarily true. u'i .i ga'inai .e'o ko skicu le krinu be le si'o lu ganai li'u cu xlali > I thank xorxes for pointing out the existence of {da'i}; it seems to fit the > bill. However, what if you are describing someone else hypothesizing a possible > world? Do you use {da'idai} and get into two murky areas at once? da'ipei > And do you use {da'i} with an ordinary logical connective, like: > > {ganai da'i mi ricfu gi mi ponse lo zdani} ? .e'a ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!