From araizen@newmail.net Sat Jun 23 13:42:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 23 Jun 2001 20:42:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 44261 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2001 20:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Jun 2001 20:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jun 2001 20:42:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: araizen@newmail.net Received: from [10.1.10.96] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Jun 2001 20:42:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:42:44 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help!! learning Lojban Message-ID: <9h2v04+9ffv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9h215i+43qi@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1267 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.0.181.249 From: "Adam Raizen" la aulun cusku di'e > > >Similarly, {vi} is (rather idiomatically unfortunately) the space > > >equivalent of {ca}. So "When we make freedom toll in every town, > > >every state and every city, we earlify the day which..." > > > > The space equivalent of {ca} is {bu'u}. {vi} is the space equivalent of {= > zi}. > > Exact - and this should have been pointed to since long, since AFAIK {bu'u= > } never ever appeared to be used in this sense in favour of > idiomatical(?) {vi}! Why? > le mlatu cu kavbu le smacu vi le panka (which is near/close to the park) > le mlatu cu kavbu le smacu bu'u le panka (at/in the park) > le mlatu cu kavbu le smacu ne'i le panka (in/at the park) [li'o] > Anyway, I think it often would be much more lojbanic to use {bu'u} instead.= Sometimes "bu'u" doesn't work so well, because the two objects aren't coincident in space. For example, "I see someone at the door." is probably not "mi viska da pe bu'u le vorme". Also, it seems that the fact of coincidence in space isn't really the important part in "The cat catches the mouse in the park", but maybe that's just Sapir-Whorf again. "zi" isn't used like "vi" because time is structured a bit differently than space, making "zi" much less useful than "vi". mu'o mi'e adam