Subject: [OT] Yiddish (was Re: [lojban] Re: Alis in Yiddishland)

From: Edward Cherlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:41:50 -0700

At 11:12 AM 6/28/2001, la .aulun. wrote:
>--- In lojban@y..., Edward Cherlin <edward.cherlin.sy.67@a...> wrote:
> > At 02:38 PM 6/26/2001, A.W.T. wrote:
> > >--- In lojban@y..., Edward Cherlin <edward.cherlin.sy.67@a...> wrote:
> > >...Refoyl Finkel's Alis in Vunderland, Kapitel 1, Arof dem
> > > > krolik-lokh. It was published in Der Bavebter Yid, and is now availab=
>
>le at
> > > > http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/bavebter/numer.1.2/sholem.alis.html.
> > >
> > >I think Yiddish (Jiddisch) is a pretty appropriate "tool" for "Alice"
> > >because - despite being a "ridiculous" mediaeval Middle-
> > >German dialect ;-)
> >
> > High German, according to my sources.

>"High German" (Hochdeutsch) first of all is the modern common language (pro=
>
>pagated by the media).
>In classifying the Germanic languages, there's a "Hochdeutsche Gruppe" (Hig=
>
>h German group, maybe better Upper German group)
>distinct from the "Niederdeutschen Gruppen" (Lower German groups) appearing=
>
> about 500 AD. Subgroups are "Oberdeutsch"
>(Upper German) - with Upper Frankonian etc. - and "Mitteldeutsch" (Middle G=
>
>erman) - with "Rheinfränkisch" and
>"Moselfränkisch Ripuarisch" (in the West) and other dialects in the East.
>Beginning with the 10th century, jews from Romance language regions came to=
>
> Rhine and Danube areas developing their new
>language (mame loshn) on the "Middle German" base.

>From Ethnologue:

YIDDISH (JIDDISCH, JUDEO-GERMAN) [YDD]
...
Indo-European, Germanic, West, Continental, High.
...
It branched off medieval High German (mainly Rhenish dialects) and received 
Modern German influences during the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Is there a misalignment between the German and English terminology for 
historical German dialects?