From a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com Mon Jul 02 05:47:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 12:47:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 36197 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 12:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 12:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3-gui.server.ntli.net) (194.168.4.200) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 12:47:49 -0000 Received: from m137-mp1-cvx2c.bre.ntl.com ([62.253.88.137] helo=andrew) by relay3-gui.server.ntli.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 15H2sR-0004ie-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:32:31 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Tentative summary on Attitudinals Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:47:01 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010701172312.A1832@twcny.rr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" Rob: > On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:00:15PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > > 6) Attitude indicators can appear anywhere in a sentence; the different > > positions have been used only for (not very clear) rhetorical > effects so far. > > This is about the conclusion that was reached, I agree. And this shows that > {da'i} doesn't work. > > You can hypothesize a "possible world" as the whole sentence, or in a > subclause > - the {da'i} should be able to apply to {poi} instead of the whole {.i}, > changing the meaning of the sentence. > > However, attitudinals in different locations don't change the meaning of the > sentence from what it would be if the attitudinal was at the beginning of the > sentence, in the state of attitudinals right now. > > Result: anything that creates possible worlds, so that counterfactual > statements can be discussed logically, cannot be a UI. Rob, I think this was at least agreed in principle years ago. I remember making the same point long ago. --And.