From b.gohla@gmx.de Mon Jul 02 14:26:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: b.gohla@gmx.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 21:26:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 47239 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 21:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 21:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.gmx.net) (194.221.183.20) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 21:24:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 26020 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jul 2001 21:24:52 -0000 Received: from b7a8c.pppool.de (HELO linux) (213.7.122.140) by mail.gmx.net (mail07) with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 21:24:52 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Reply-To: b.gohla@gmx.de Organization: private site To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Not talking about imaginary worlds Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:25:18 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010702020333.00b12dd0@postoffice.pacbell.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010702020333.00b12dd0@postoffice.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01070223251800.00848@linux> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?utf-8?q?Bj=C3=B6rn=20Gohla?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 02 July 2001 11:40, Edward Cherlin wrote: > We will have to do what the mathematicians do--Work out how to express > ourselves clumsily in the current language, and then invent a better one > when we have a better idea of what we are doing. not being proficient enough in mathematics yet i do not fully grasp the dep= th=20 of the arguments brought forward here. however in spite of risking to resta= te=20 some of what was written, the following: i imagine a hierachy of "universes", each of these is determined by the=20 propositions that are certain within them, and they contain a potentially=20 infinite number of propositions that are undecided. by determining an=20 undecided proposition a new universe is created which inherits all=20 certainties from its ancestor adding to them the proposition whose=20 affirmation created the new universe. all other uncertainties persist.=20=20 applied to discourse that means a speaker starts out with a universe=20 containing all propositions that are true form his perspective, whether all= =20 those propositions are considered seperately for the sake of universe=20 creation or as one does not matter much. as long as the speaker does not=20 question what he holds to be true, corresponding to traversing the hierarch= y=20 rootwards, we are not concerned with what lies "below" the universe=20 representing the speakers knowledge. the concept becomes feaseble once one= =20 considers propositions that are not decided in the current universe, they=20 could be either true or false, bearing the potential for two new universes.= =20 thus if the speaker wants to argue based on the tentative truth or falsity = of=20 the proposition in question, he "enters" one of the universes and from then= =20 on anything said will presume the proposition determined. he may of course= =20 equally well leave the universe again and enter the opposite or create ones= =20 within others, "recursively speculating" so to say. in the terms of this concept the usual "if p is true then q is true" phrase= s=20 could be described as taking the undecided proposition p, entering the=20 universe where p is true, and then affirming q. this is equivalent to sayin= g=20 "suppose p is true. q is true". the latter seems to be employed when the=20 consequence demands a longer description so the condition is syntactically= =20 detached. the root of the hierarchy could be imagined as being determined by a=20 proposition of the sort "i think therefore i am". - --=20 - -------------------- HARDFAIL("Not enough magic."); 2.4.0-test2 /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/nbd.c pub 1024D/834F4976 2001-01-07 Bj=C3=B6rn Gohla (Wissenschaftler, Weltb=C3= =BCrger)=20 Key fingerprint =3D 9FF4 FEDA CCDF DA0E 14D5 8129 6C14 3C39 834F 4976 sub 1024g/29571FE2 2001-01-07 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7QObGbBQ8OYNPSXYRAqFsAJ9UknMtfBFKs1YQLPxtxoxDWK6xmwCfXSe8 gI4bttEZDx56LTSa1ajvj2E=3D =3DNACb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----