Subject: Re: [lojban] Tentative summary on Attitudinals

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:13:34 EDT

In a message dated 7/4/2001 1:58:38 AM Central Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> na jinga .i so'ida pu pante bau le glico .i mi fapro da .i bai mi farvi le
> glico zumdau le lojbo zumdau .i da po'u na'ebo la xorxes. co'u tcidu ja'e
> le kamfliba .i xy. punai xlura mi soi vo'a vo'e le ka jinvi le du'u frica
> zo ui lu mi gleki li'u .i .uiru'e .a'ucu'i ku'i pe'i mi jinga ki'u le du'u
> xy. xa'o darlu
> 
> .i .eicai le pante je darlu troci cu casnu bau la lojban .i le zu'o pensi
> bau le glico cu selfesti le kamcfipu xanri seldau .i mu'a le ka bebna
> krici le dumfrica cu selsarcu le glico valsi smuni
> 
> .i ju'osai mi cajeba pilno zo ui le smuni be lu mi gleki .i ganai da cusku
> bau le glico gi mi toljundi .i ku'i ru'a da na tcidu dei
> 

Well, I did (the sore tooth syndrome). And I can only say that xod is wrong 
about most things he claims or implies. I can do this with a clear 
conscience since he is already ignoring everything I say (or so he vowed) and 
thus he willl not be further offended (though it is one of the reasons that 
he gets things wrong, even after making allowances for what he actually says 
(I doubt for example that he really thinks that something evolved into an 
English discussion from a Lojban one). 
One of the reasons for arguing in English, as a I say, is that we can spend 
some time on the arguments, not on their formulation. Were I xorxes, I would 
have stopped arguing with xod simply because he never said anything germane 
except to repeat the same point (of which he admitted he did not understand a 
key word) and which he never backed up. In English one can go on a bit, 
developing new points, modifying positions as the need arises -- carry on a 
discussion, in short. Some day we will do this in Lojban -- xorxes already 
does and xod may get there yet -- but for now, for most of us, English works 
better once we need to work things out as well as pass them on. so, I don't 
think that -- xorxes aside -- the discussion has evolved from English to 
Lojban either (what I assume xod meant) nor do I see xod as being a 
particularly compelling factor in that, aside from the fact that xorxes 
regularly responds to Lojban in Lojban, even to "Lojban" in Lojban.
It does not appear that the topics that are raised in English are 
confusednessly imaginary (where do those {ka} come from?) and it is certainly 
clear that xod has not won this particular battle (though he clings on 
tenaciously enough for me to qualify the claim that it is agreed that {ui} 
and {mi gleki} are different -- a tentativeness I do not extend to the 
difference itself). Nor have the discussions been a waste, though they have 
not led to a successful clear outcome yet.