From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Jul 09 21:40:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 10 Jul 2001 04:40:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 88851 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 04:40:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2001 04:40:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-4.cais.net) (205.252.14.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 04:39:59 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org ([209.8.89.182]) by stmpy-4.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6A4dwJ63611 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010710003204.00d73600@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:44:10 -0400 To: "Lojban@Yahoogroups. Com" Subject: Re: [lojban] 'irrational' numbers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 12:36 AM 07/10/2001 +0100, And Rosta wrote: >1. As I understand it, when numbers from -infinity to +infinity >[I can't remember what they're called: real? natural?] can't be >expressed as ratios, yet we want to refer to them, we name >them, as with e, pi and phi, for example. I'm wondering what >Lojban does. On the hand it could refer to the number by >means of a cmene or lo+brivla, but can such ordinary sumti >be used wherever numbers can? (E.g. in mekso.) ni'e [selbri] converts a selbri to a quantifier (inverse of MOI) mo'e [sumti] converts a sumti to a quantifier (inverse of li) There is minimal usage history for either of these, and they exist as much for completeness as for having specific application. My original thought with ni'e would be for such vague or metaphorical collective quantifiers as a "gaggle" of geese or a "brace" of oxen. I could also imagine defining a function using a selbri (e.g. dugri), in which case one of these converters would turn a construct into the value of the function. >2. What does "LI X" mean, where X is something other than a PA? In addition to PA, li can take a delimited mathematical expression, in which case it means the value of that expression, or it can take a lerfu-string, in which case we are doing algebra, it can take either of the converted forms mentioned above, it can take an array marked with jo'i, or it can take a pointer variable, a set of values, and possibly other things using the LAhE family of operators, or it can take a forethought Gek-connected quantifier of any of these types. -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org