From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Sat Jul 14 05:01:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 14 Jul 2001 12:01:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 55225 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 12:01:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2001 12:01:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 12:01:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.2.51] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2001 12:01:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 12:01:01 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Looking down Message-ID: <9ipc9t+1th7@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1536 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.104.218.70 From: "A.W.T." --- In lojban@y..., Nick Nicholas wrote: > Your assembled wit & wisdom is requested again, listmembers. Arnt has > pointed out to me that {mo'ini'u catlu le kabri} is not a good rendering of > "looked down at her cup", since it is not clear what exactly is 'moving > downwards'. I think the eyeballs can be sensibly inferred as moving down, > and that when you don't have an overt predicate of motion involved, you > should be able to exert common sense (implicature) in determining what it > is that moves. But then again, is this simply a sense of directionality, so > that {ni'u catlu le kabri} is enough? > > So which is it? Is {[mo'i]ni'u catlu le kabri} acceptable Lojban? And more > importantly, is it acceptable in the Lessons? ni'a FAhA2 below location tense relation/direction; downwards/down from ... I'd say that {ni'a catlu le kabri} is sufficient to express the relation/direction where the event of {catlu le kabri} is taking place. It also worked expressing {catlu le ni'a kabri} Maybe a phrase like "He looked at her from head to toes..." (i.e. his gaze was wandering from...) needed a {mo'i}. I feel, "physically correct" constructions like e.g. {mi vuto'o catlu le ni'a zdani} were anything else than intuitive. I also used {mo'i} in one of my translations from Chinese: 1) mo'ire'o le flejau... ku do jarco... 2) .i pa mo'izo'a ke ctopau mudre'e cu... and I think that the idea of the different movements and the specific "picture" respective should be quite obvious. mu'omi'e .aulun.