From a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com Tue Jul 17 06:33:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 13:33:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5835 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 13:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 13:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3-gui.server.ntli.net) (194.168.4.200) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 13:33:16 -0000 Received: from m812-mp1-cvx1b.bir.ntl.com ([62.255.43.44] helo=andrew) by relay3-gui.server.ntli.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 15MUjK-0002T0-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:17:38 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] registry of experimental cmavo Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:32:21 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: From: "And Rosta" Jay: > On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, And Rosta wrote: > > > A. Is there a registry of experimental cmavo? If not, could > > we have one? If noone else wants to maintain it, I'd volunteer > > to. > > My web page dictionary will allow people to submit experimental > cmavo and gismu, when it is complete. This is good, but I'd like to have access to records specifically of proposed additions/innovations/augmentations to the language. [....] > > B. Can experimental cmavo belong to experimental selmaho and > > hence can there be experimental grammatical structures? > > The grammar is supposed to be fixed and unchanging for the time being, > isn't it? That was my question. Do experimental cmavo allow only for new meanings or also for new syntax? Either way, I'm interested in assembling a list of desirable hypothetical grammar changes. > > 1. In BAhE: next word begins nonstandard construction. > > How does the different from ba'e? If you're referring to an entire > nonstandard grammatical construct, then how does the listener know where > it ends? You look it up in the documentation on nonstandardisms. You could also have counterparts in FUhE and FUhO -- begin/end nonstandard construction. > > 2. bridi-to-sumti converter > > Isn't that more or less what le/lo/etc do? As you know, gadri take a sumti-tail/bridi-tail and yield a sumti that refers to its x1. I want something that takes a full bridi and yields a sumti that refers to the bridi. > If nothing else, doesn't su'u do the job? The main problem with LE+su'u/du'u is that the intermediate stage of bridi-to-selbri conversion introduces unwanted logicosemantic issues. > > 4. takes cmevla as complement and yields da-series KOhA, allowing > > bare cmevla to function as da-series KOhA thereafter. > > > > 5. takes cmevla as complement and yields ko'a-series KOhA, allowing > > bare cmevla to function as ko'a-series KOhA thereafter. > > So basically you want cmevla to act as sumti, everywhere? > > Whats wrong with the la? The motivation for (4-5) is that it's easy to end up needing a bazillion distinct da-series and ko'a-series KOhAs, and using "xi PA" is both longwinded and unmnemonic. > > 6. In SE: fill places from x2/x3/x4/x5 onwards with zi'o > > Speaking of that, I was thinking that another SE question which acts as > "fi'a" for all the sumti could be useful. How would that work? Something equivalent to "fi'a mi fi'a do viska"? --And.