From a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com Tue Jul 17 06:34:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 13:34:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 84924 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 13:33:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 13:33:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3-gui.server.ntli.net) (194.168.4.200) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 13:33:05 -0000 Received: from m812-mp1-cvx1b.bir.ntl.com ([62.255.43.44] helo=andrew) by relay3-gui.server.ntli.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 15MUjE-0002T0-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:17:33 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] questions about DOI & cmene Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:32:15 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: From: "And Rosta" John: > Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) scripsit: [...] > > Saying that there was no question of its meaning something doesn't tell me > > whether it means it or doesn't mean it (I can read it either way), so which > > are you concluding? > > I conclude that "doi cribe" = "doi la cribe" was never considered, > because that is not what Carter vocatives are for: they are all about > identifying "do" based on some characteristic such as "girl in the red > dress". The question was whether that description had to be veridical; > you said it didn't. On a different but related point, this seems to conflict with Lojbab saying "coi girl in the red dress" means "hello, those of you that I am describing as a girl in the red dress". Lojbab's formulation makes the description restrict do, implying that the referent of do is already established, and a subset of them are being greeted. Your formulation makes the description nonrestrictive, identifying the referent of do. --And.