From lojbab@lojban.org Tue Jul 17 11:19:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 18:19:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 42944 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 18:17:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 18:17:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-1.cais.net) (205.252.14.71) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 18:17:57 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (169.dynamic.cais.com [207.226.56.169]) by stmpy-1.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6HIHrY66644 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010717141331.00c2fba0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:21:59 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Looking down: executive summary? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010716225659.00c87b60@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 11:21 AM 07/17/2001 -0600, Jay Kominek wrote: >On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > > At which point, I throw the question open to *all* who have read some or > > all of Nick's lessons, with especial focus on the opinions of newer > > Lojbanists: is this the type of book YOU need or would like to read as a > > beginner in the language, or do we need something more basic, to which this > > book would be the follow-on. > >I think the lessons are almost perfect, in both execution and coverage. >(The only thing I could imagine doing would be to shorten them by a few >chapters, taking out a bit of the more advanced content, and using that as >the beginning of a second set of advanced lessons. As it is, the gap >between the lessons and the reference grammar might be the teeniest >smidgen too steep) Unfortunately, the only BEGINNER I've heard from (someone who has never read the refgrammar or tried to speak the language, seems to be finding the lessons too steep. Not nearly enough examples, and exercises that go beyond what he feels he knows how to do based on the text. The lessons as they are thus challenge a learner, rather than give him confidence that the language is easy in order to move on to seek a tougher challenge. pc has made the comment that even he is learning stuff from the lessons, and I don't think that beginner lessons would teach skilled Lojbanists anything. >As some are now mentioning, a work book and all the other various >multimedia learning aids which are popular in language education would be >nice to go along with it, but obviously, resources are limited. Yep. >The only way I could see a more beginning text written is if it were >targetted at children and heavily illustrated, etc. The example of a more beginning text is either the mini-lesson or the Esperanto 10 lesson postal course, both of which seem to drown one in examples and exercises and neither of which seeks to cover even a large fraction of the language. I haven't seen anyone comment on the relative levels of either of those compared to Nick's lessons, and it was my perception that they are written above that level that led me to make the comment that I did. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org