Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: kargu mleca

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:52:57

la adam cusku di'e

>This seems like "abstraction raising" to me. "ko'a sisku lo ka broda
>kei le klesi" means that ko'a is looking for something which has the
>property of broda-ness in the set, which should be able to be
>expressed by "ko'a sisku lo ckaji be lo ka broda kei le klesi" which
>is just the same as "ko'a sisku lo broda le klesi".

The problem the gi'uste wants to avoid is that in {ko'a sisku
lo broda}, the quantifier of {lo broda} is at the bridi level, and
this is not what we want to claim in some cases. I don't want to
claim that there is something less expensive, such that I am looking
for that very something. But turning the x2 of sisku into a property
is a crazy way of solving this problem.

Let's compare three predicates where this issue comes up: sisku,
djica and nitcu. The gi'uste handles each of them differently:
sisku gets the object turned into a property, djica gets an event,
and nitcu apparently comes out unscathed.

So, even when there is no quantification problem, we are supposed
to say weird stuff like:

mi nitcu do i mi djica le nu do co'e i mi sisku le ka du do
I need you. I want you. I'm looking for you.

instead of the expected {mi nitcu do i mi djica do i mi sisku do}.

Much better in my opinion is to leave them with their original
meaning and then say:

mi nitcu lo'e kargu mleca
I need something less expensive.

mi djica lo'e kargu mleca
I want something less expensive.

mi sisku lo'e kargu mleca
I'm looking for something less expensive.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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