From jjllambias@hotmail.com Tue Jul 31 15:40:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 31 Jul 2001 22:40:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 61162 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 22:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2001 22:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.25) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:40:18 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.43 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:40:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.43] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] 'LAhe-da' (was RE: Tidying notes on {goi} Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:40:18 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2001 22:40:18.0132 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5F99940:01C11A11] From: "Jorge Llambias" la and cusku di'e > > The way I propose is very transparent: The second quantifier > > introduces a new variable just as if you had used a different da > > (say daxize) with the convenience that it remains restricted > > to the same set as the one you had been using so far, so you are > > spared from repeating the poi clause. No special new scope rule > > is required. > >This has to be set against the inconvenience of the shortage of >da-series KOhA, which makes it desirable to be able to recycle >them as much as possible. My proposal was meant as the lesser of two evils. If the second quantification must be taken as restricted to something then it should be to the same set as the first, which at least is something logically transparent, and not to some "selected" subset which makes it hard or impossible to be consistent >This of course was how the original thread began -- by me >proposing [-- I'm reformulating here --] something in LAhE that >takes a cmene and yields a quantifiable variable, and assigns >the value of the variable to the cmene. You replied that {su'o >da goi la ab" would do the job, but it won't under your proposal, It sort of would. If da is unused, then {su'o da goi la ab su'o da goi la ac} gives you two independent variables, since the first da is unrestricted, the second is restricted to the same universal set of everything. >and your proposal would make my 'LAhE-da' even more necessary, >since you'd have to be resorting to {da xi pa} that much more >often. I don't know. Most of my use of {da} is without explicit poi anyway. I wouldn't mind if my rule was simply one of implicature, so {su'o da} means {su'o da poi co'e}. That's how it seems to work in practice in any case. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp