From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Fri Aug 03 18:45:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 01:45:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 572 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 01:45:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 01:45:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta05-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.45) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 01:45:49 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.253.88.57]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010804014547.CEIA20588.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 02:45:47 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] From the Wiki: The 17 tallest men Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 02:44:29 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" Jorge: > I think we can use {moi} for this. > > "The third tallest man" is: {le cimoi be lei nanmu bei le ka clani} > > Then we have: > > ro le su'epazemoi be lei nanmu bei le ka clani > Each of the up-to-17th tallest men. > > which can eventually be shortened to: > > ro le clani nanmu su'epazemoi I don't like that {le}, because I think nonveridicality should be an exception to the norm and because "the third tallest man" may or may not be specific. In English it may mean "A certain man (he is the third tallest)", i.e. specific, or "Whichever of the men is third tallest", i.e. nonspecific. But, change it to: ro lo su'e pa ze moi be lei nanmu bei tu'o ka ce'u clani and I think that you have the best translation & that it should be considered canonical. --And.