From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Tue Aug 07 18:07:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 8 Aug 2001 01:07:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 49767 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 01:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2001 01:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta01-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 01:07:25 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.255.40.7]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010808010723.VPAE15984.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:07:23 +0100 To: Subject: partial-bridi anaphora (was: RE: [lojban] no'a Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:06:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: From: "And Rosta" Jorge: > la and cusku di'e > > > > 1- la djan ba klama lo zarci pu le nu la meris no'a > > > > > > A) John will go to some store before Mary goes to it. > > > B) John will go to some store before Mary goes to one. > > > >C) John will go to some store before Mary is x1 of the next > > outer bridi. > > Whatever does that mean? Just that. "John will go to some store before Mary is x1 of the bridi 'John will go [...]'". The sense is clear but nonsensical. > Could you give an example of a sentence with no'a that makes > sense? It makes sense with {lo no'a} etc. la djan ba klma lo zarci pu le nu la meris viska lo no'a John1 will go to some store before Mary sees him1. > The next outer bridi is {la djan ba klama lo zarci}, isn't it? Yes, though hopefully these issues will get firmed up through further consideration and debate. > >But let's change the examples to: > > > >1- la djan ba klama lo zarci pu le nu la meris go'i > > > > > > A) John will go to some store before Mary goes to it. > > > B) John will go to some store before Mary goes to one. > > Sometimes I'm tempted to use go'i like that, but I think go'i > can't be the bridi it is embedded in. Probably a wise thing. > >My answer is this: if, as in predicate logic, each quantifier > >begins a new bridi, then by go'i-ing to the appropriate > >bridi (outer, including the quantifier, or inner, not including > >the quantifier), you could get both A and B readings, at least > >for 1 & 2. > > What would be the bridi(s) in 1 if we followed predicate logic? Using Polish notation (with coarguments aligned on separate lines, for readability), and enclosing bridi in round brackets, (A) would be: (Ex (& (store x) (will (before (go John, x), (go Mary, x))))) ("Ex" could have various scopes: (A) is ambiguous.) But what I said isn't true. To get (B) you'd need something lambdaish (which I'm shaky on), so something along the lines of; (will (before (in John, {x: (Ey (& (go x, y), (store y)))}-GOI-z ), (in Mary, z))) ["in" = "cmima" or "ckaji"] while the A reading could also be done thus: (Ey (& (store y), (will (before (in John, {x: (go x, y)}-GOI-z ), (in Mary, z))))) (There are nicer ways than using GOI, but they are syntactic rather than logical, so I've kept things simple and used GOI.) > I usually take bridi to be the things separated by .i plus > anything within a NU. Can they be something else? In Lojban grammar, I don't know. In formal logic, a bridi would be something that has a truth value, which is pretty much everything except variables (and, if you insist on having them, constants). --And.