From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Aug 08 17:10:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 9 Aug 2001 00:10:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 96522 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 00:09:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2001 00:09:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.138) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 00:09:52 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:09:52 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.46 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:09:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.46] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RE: [lojban] ka + makau (was: ce'u (was: vliju'a Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:09:52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2001 00:09:52.0852 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CDCC940:01C12067] From: "Jorge Llambias" la xod cusku di'e >"X goes to the store" >"I know that X went to the store" >"There are X people in this room" > >In each case if the statement is true, X is a value that makes it true. X >is an answer to the question "What is X?", which in each case would >probably be phrased more directly (ex. "Who goes to the store?"). But >really, X is just a variable. One that we can surely denote with "ko'a" >if we lift the weak expectation that ko'a should have been defined by a >previous bridi. It doesn't have to be defined by a previous bridi. But there is a crucial difference between {ko'a} and {makau}. A statement with ko'a is true if, once you establish the value of ko'a, you find that it satisfies the bridi. A bridi with makau, on the other hand, is always true, because makau represents the value that makes it true. Compare these two statements in English: 1- John knows she went. 2- John knows who went. "she" is like ko'a, "who" is like makau. "she" is someone the speaker has in mind, and you cannot evaluate the truth of 1 unless you know who it is that "she" stands for. "who" on the other hand, is whoever went. The speaker may have no clue as to who that is. >ko'a is freer than da since it does not assert existence. {ko'a klama} entails {su'o da klama}. >Finally, let's consider: > > ko'a ko'e frica le ka ce'u klama makau > X and Y differ in where they go > >What about the routes? Are they different? Are they the same? They are probably different, but we are not told. Certainly the x3 is not _everything_ in which x1 and x2 differ. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp