Subject: RE: [lojban] ka + makau (was: ce'u (was: vliju'a

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:32:28

la and cusku di'e

> > le nu le xokau prenu cu zvati cu spaji mi
> > That the (however many) people are here surprises me.
> >
> > That indeed means something like "However many people there are
> > here, their being here surprises me".
>
>There doesn't have to be reference to anyone it particular. "they"
>can have a nonspecific (bound variable) antecdent.

I think I didn't explain well. Consider a specific case. What
"their being here surprises me" can mean is:

vo da poi prenu zo'u le nu da zvati cu spaji mi
There are four x such that x being here surprises me.

But my sentence can't mean that. It could mean:

le nu vo da poi prenu zo'u da zvati cu spaji mi
That there are four x here surprises me.

The quantification is inside the surprise. Your version requires
that it be outside.

>So I don't think
>you have adequately distinguished "It surprises me how many there
>are here" and "However many there are, it surprises me that they're
>here".

One has the quantifier inside le spaji, the other outside.

>Cf. "However many flies are in this room, it surprises me
>that they're here" -- I'm not referring to any particular flies,
>just to any flies that are here.

That would go into Lojban as something like:

xokau da poi sfani zo'u le nu da zvati cu spaji mi

Different from:

le nu xokau sfani cu zvati cu spaji mi

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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