From pycyn@aol.com Fri Aug 10 09:36:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 10 Aug 2001 16:36:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 48593 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 16:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2001 16:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 16:36:41 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id r.3d.fb2bd7e (4324) for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d.fb2bd7e.28a56791@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:36:33 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: ka + makau (was: ce'u (was: vliju'a To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3d.fb2bd7e.28a56791_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 From: pycyn@aol.com --part1_3d.fb2bd7e.28a56791_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/9/2001 8:03:22 PM Central Daylight Time, cowan@ccil.org writes: > If I know that the planet Venus has a surface temperature of 900 deg. C, > then I know that the planet Freya has a surface temp. of 900 C, > even if I do not know that Freya = Venus. > > In this hypo, I would be prepared to affirm "I do not know that > the planet Freya has a surface temp. etc. etc.", but I would be > in error. > I was sure that you were on the other side of this in the olden days of Orcutt the master spy, but, in any case, you now seem to be on the wrong side. Usual argument: knowledge is intensional, so works only with intensional identities, Freya=Venus is only extensional if not known, hence replacement does not go through. As soon as the knower comes to know the identity and make use of it, then he knows about Freya. But not until. --part1_3d.fb2bd7e.28a56791_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/9/2001 8:03:22 PM Central Daylight Time, cowan@ccil.org
writes:


If I know that the planet Venus has a surface temperature of 900 deg. C,
then I know that the planet Freya has a surface temp. of 900 C,
even if I do not know that Freya = Venus.

In this hypo, I would be prepared to affirm "I do not know that
the planet Freya has a surface temp. etc. etc.", but I would be
in error.


I was sure that you were on the other side of this in the olden days of
Orcutt the master spy, but, in any case, you now seem to be on the wrong
side.  Usual argument: knowledge is intensional, so works only with
intensional identities, Freya=Venus is only extensional if not known, hence
replacement does not go through.  As soon as the knower comes to know the
identity and make use of it, then he knows about Freya.  But not until. --part1_3d.fb2bd7e.28a56791_boundary--