From pycyn@aol.com Fri Aug 10 14:12:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 10 Aug 2001 21:12:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 96859 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 21:12:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2001 21:12:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d09.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.41) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 21:12:56 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id r.ca.1936347b (4420) for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:12:41 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] A or B, depending on C, and related issues To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ca.1936347b.28a5a849_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 From: pycyn@aol.com --part1_ca.1936347b.28a5a849_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/10/2001 11:56:43 AM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: > I think it means that "Q or R depending on P" > is not well represented by a three way logical connective. > I think the ones I gave are not too bad actually, but that is a prejudice left over from years of teaching logic, where things like this seem always to work. It is just the issue of whether this formal similarity represents any real similarity that I am concerned about. I am less sceptical than I was a while ago, but still far from convinced that these are all "the same thing." In the case of "know," what seems to be involved is a correct answer to the question, in the case of "wonder" a range of possible answers, in "What's for dinner depends on what's in the fridge" there seem to be answers to two questions and the correlations between them, in "The magic formula changed how tall I am" what is involved is just my height, not the answer to any question but the topic of it. and other examples bring up other things, which can be related to questions -- as can anything -- but don't seem to be interestingly so related in ways that match other cases. And in almost none of these does it stand for The Right Answer (even with "know"). So, I think we need cases and deal with them as they come along and then look back and see whether there is a thread that runs through at least some of these cases and that leads to a simplification or a unification of the cases. Surely this includes (in some not very clear sense) "If I go to a formal party, I will wear a tux" and "If I go camping, I will wear rough clothing" and "If I go to a nudist beach, I will wear damn-all" Each first part is an "answer" to the "question" "Where go I?" and each second to the question "What wear I?" and the "if then"s show appropriate dependencies -- with probably lots more cases to consider. as you have pointed out, the "indirect question" parts just cover the case without giving the details, as does "my apparel varies with my destination." I would say exactly the same way, in fact, which leaves the question of what all this has to do with questions. the most I see is that most of them seem to be pulling out of a bag that might be called "answers," but the pulling is in so many different ways that it is hard to see a thread -- and there remain cases that don't seem to involve "answers" at all. --part1_ca.1936347b.28a5a849_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/10/2001 11:56:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:



I think it means that "Q or R depending on P"
is not well represented by a three way logical connective.




I think the ones I gave are not too bad actually, but that is a prejudice
left over from years of teaching logic, where things like this seem always to
work.

<It has to do in that forms like "Whether A happens depends
on whether B happens", or "what x does depends on what y
does", etc, involve these so called "indirect question" forms.>

It is just the issue of whether this formal similarity represents any real
similarity that I am concerned about.  I am less sceptical than I was a while
ago, but still far from convinced that these are all "the same thing."  In
the case of "know," what seems to be involved is a correct answer to the
question, in the case of "wonder" a range of possible answers, in "What's for
dinner depends on what's in the fridge" there seem to be answers to two
questions and the correlations between them, in "The magic formula changed
how tall I am" what is involved is just my height, not the answer to any
question but the topic of it.  and other examples bring up other things,
which can be related to questions -- as can anything -- but don't seem to be
interestingly so related in ways that match other cases.  And in almost none
of these does it stand for The Right Answer (even with "know").

So, I think we need cases and deal with them as they come along and then look
back and see whether there is a thread that runs through at least some of
these cases and that leads to a simplification or a unification of the cases.

<What I wear depends on (results from) where I go.>  
Surely this includes (in some not very clear sense) "If I go to a formal
party, I will wear a tux" and "If I go camping, I will wear rough clothing"
and "If I go to a nudist beach, I will wear damn-all"  Each first part is an
"answer" to the "question" "Where go I?" and each second to the question
"What wear I?" and the "if then"s show appropriate dependencies -- with
probably lots more cases to consider.  as you have pointed out, the "indirect
question" parts just cover the case without giving the details, as does "my
apparel varies with my destination."  I would say exactly the same way, in
fact, which leaves the question of what all this has to do with questions.  
the most I see is that most of them seem to be pulling out of a bag that
might be called "answers," but the pulling is in so many different ways that
it is hard to see a thread -- and there remain cases that don't seem to
involve "answers" at all.
--part1_ca.1936347b.28a5a849_boundary--