Subject: Re: ka + makau (was: ce'u (was: vliju'a

From: "Adam Raizen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:45:07 -0000

la xorxes cusku di'e

> 
> la adam cusku di'e
> 
> > 1) la meris kucli le du'u makau klama le zarci
> > 2) la meris kucli le du'u la djan klama le zarci
> >
> >It seems me that in 1), Mary is wondering about the identity of who
> >goes, whereas in 2), Mary is wondering about the fact that John
goes.
> >The makau could be replaced by la djan in 1), and it would change
the
> >meaning. Or maybe that's not what 1) means, but if it isn't, how do
> >you say it?
> 
> I agree about 1), I'm not sure how you are interpreting 2).
> {kucli} requires that x1 doesn't know the truth value of x2,
> so if there is no explicit kau, 2) could mean {la meris kucli
> le du'u xukau la djan klama le zarci} or even something like
> {la meris kucli le du'u la djan klama le zarci makau makau makau}.
> In any case, there is a fact that you're making reference to,
> and the claim is that that fact is in relationship kucli with
> Mary.

But it's not just any fact; the fact must have a "kau" in it to mark
the part of it that is wondered about, and you can't replace the kaued
word with its actual value, or the bridi gets an undefined meaning.
Perhaps you could still mark it with 'kau': 'la meris kucli le du'u la
djan kau klama le zarci', but the kau still cannot be dropped, and it
seems to be saying that John goes to the store, even though Mary
doesn't know it and is wondering about it. (I think that 2, then,
either has an elided kau, or should be expressed with something like
'se cinri'.)

mu'o mi'e adam