Subject: Re: [lojban] Transliterations survey

From: David Crowell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:42:10 +0000

These are my evalutions (reasons they could be used, or languages in which it
is transliterated (te xemfanvyle'u (or pronounced) on different
transliterations, with possible addition that
other or I originate (marked - and -- respectively)
Note the languages I mention might not use these, but I have seen them use it
with the same sound)

Muenchen (= Munich), Germany

munxen. (most recognizable due to modern German spelling)
miunxen to distinguish from Munchen (without umlaut), Russian, Japanese, and
other commonly do the vowel this way.
minxen Greek (spelled mu-hypsilon (my), Yiddish, and possible others use
pronunciation due to thier transcription)
- muncen, muncyn (to my ears,. that is the way that Germans prounce -ch- in
this word)
-- muinxen, (from Korean Yale transcription Mwinhey)

Koeln (= Cologne), Germany

koln. (modern German spelling)
kioln. (same idea used for miunxen to mark the umlautization), Russian
(spelled as an umlauted e - ë)
keln. Done in Yiddish, Greek (I would guess from what Nick wrote), Japanese
would do this.German oe
- kyln (I do not like this, because it is based on a common English
pronunciation schwa or ur to imitate this sound)
-- koiln (via the common Korean Yale transcription for this vowel: oy)

Cote d'Azur (= French Riviera), France

kot.daZUR. (simple, matches original spelling)
kot.daZIUR. Russian, Japanese.
kot.daZIR. (Yiddish, Greek)
-- kot.dazuir (from the common Korean Yale transliteration for the French u)

Villeneuve, France

vilNOV. (used due to match munxen and koln transcription)
vilNIOV. Russian
vilNEV. Yiddish, Greek

Fukushima, Japan

fukucima. (Best one, imo, fits with Japanese spelling and standard
xemfanvyle'u of English (as well as a few other languages)
fikicima. (I find this unacceptable because it could easily be confused for
Fukishima or Fikishima (spelled in Japanese hu,small-i, si)
fykycima. (Fits with the weak -u- pronunciation, but iffy, because could be
confused for my possible -fikicima- reverse te xemfanvyle'u)

DiyarbakIr, Turkey

di,iarbaKUR. (imo, unacceptable, could easily be confused with hypothetical
Diyarbakur). But the final vowel does fit the way the Korean pronounce their
Yale -u- (the whole word would te xemfanvyle'u in Korean Yale as
Tiyalupakulu)
di,iarbaKIR. (best one, people fanuliar with the vowel harmony qualities of
Turkish would recognize this for Turkish undotted i)
di,iarbaKYR. (good one, y- could in theory be use for all uses of Turkish
undotted i in cmeme)
-- di,iarbakuir (I sometimes would use to match a basic pattern to advoid
using the i or the schwa sound (Lojban -y- sound)
- di,arbakur (I tend to avoid double -i- and double -u- (here seperated by
slakabu) in Lojban translation

Bourgogne (= Burgundy), France

burGON. (easiest to write and pronounce)
burGONiy. Japanese and Korean use a buffer vowel like this.
burGOIN. (Basque uses this spelling technique to mark patalization of their
-n, but when vowels follow this palatal, an older Basque orthography uses the
Spanish ñ (tilde n)

Marseilles, France (this is a bad choice for syllable final palatal -l which
I assume this example tries to focus on)
Bad choice

marSEI. This is the way I would think that French would pronounce this word

Syllable-final palatal -l- would be better focused on with the Catalan -xoll
(using Nick's choices for final-syllabic choices for palatal -n)
col (easiest to write and pronounce)
COLy Japanese and Korean use a buffer vowel like this
coil (Basque uses this spelling technique to mark patalization of their -l,
but when vowels follow this palatal, an older Basque orthography uses the
Spanish -ll-

Magyaroszag (= Hungary) (noting but ignoring the final. but irrelevant, long
á typo)
(appears to focus on palatal Hungary -gy, if I am correct the unvoiced
equivalent is Hungarian -ty)

MAdiarosag. (fits, most accurately (if I remember correctly) with Hungarian
pronunciation)
MAdjarosag. palatal d is sometimes pronounced as a dj, for example in the
dialect of English I grew up with.
MAgiarosag. (fits only with Hungary spelling)
MAgarosag. (simplifies the -gy- to a -g)

The Albanian exmaples I ignore due to my ignorance of these sounds.