From nicholas@uci.edu Mon Aug 13 23:25:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nicholas@uci.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 14 Aug 2001 06:25:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 95358 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 06:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2001 06:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO e4e.oac.uci.edu) (128.200.222.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 06:25:45 -0000 Received: from localhost (nicholas@localhost) by e4e.oac.uci.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26236; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:25:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: e4e.oac.uci.edu: nicholas owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:25:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: To: Cc: Nick NICHOLAS Subject: Re: [lojban] selma'o considered harmful Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Nick NICHOLAS cu'u la lojbab. sera'a zo selma'o >It is bogus from the standpoint of rigorous tanru/dikyjvo etymology, but >this is a case where a lujvo through usage does not strictly mean what its >etymology suggests. selma'o was coined as a word for "lexeme" when dikyjvo >did not exist and it is thoroughly ensconced in our literature with that >meaning. I think it is now a little too late to do to selma'o what we did >to kunbri (now selbri, and the former is long forgotten) and le'avla (now >fu'ivla, but you can still find the former sometimes). 1) Our literature? You mean, the literature I'm currently reediting? 2) selma'o ensconced as 'lexeme'? As in the Book, 2.18's definition? #selma'o: # a group of cmavo that have the same grammatical use (can appear #interchangeably in sentences, as far as the grammar is concerned) but #differ in meaning or other usage. See Chapter 20. Or Chapter 20 thereof, which lists only cmavo? The occasional *and incidental* mention of selma'o BRIVLA in Chapter 21, in that case, can readily be treated as an erratum. The lexemes of Lojban are neither selma'o nor vlalei, but vlagenkle: word grammatical class. (The vlalei is a more generic, morphologic class.) 3) Never mind dikyjvo: if a selcmavo is not exactly the same thing as a se cmavo, then what language *are* we speaking? I'm unconvinced selma'o as used to mean 'lexeme' is not an error. -- == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == Nick Nicholas, Breathing {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu} nicholas@uci.edu -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias