From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Tue Aug 14 18:34:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 15 Aug 2001 01:34:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 79046 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 01:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Aug 2001 01:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta07-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.47) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 01:34:23 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.253.88.56]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010815013421.LNTD710.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:34:21 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] {lo'i} as a Q-kau solution? Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:33:29 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal From: "And Rosta" Xod to xorxes: > > >mi djuno lu'e le klama > > > > > >Since the listener might not know that John is the goer, this should be > > >interpreted as "I know the symbol of the goer", and not "I know John". > > > > The symbol of the goer is the name 'John', not the person named 'John'. > > Yes yes. But the fact that the symbol 'John' was referred to not by it's > letters but by its meaning inescapably proves that the speaker knows the > symbol, knows the meaning, and knows that the symbol maps to that meaning. > And that's all the sentence is trying to impart. It would help if you change the example to "la susan djuno....". That way we don't get confused between what the speaker knows and what the knower knows. --And.