From andrew@ling.ed.ac.uk Wed Aug 15 06:32:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: andrew@ling.ed.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 15 Aug 2001 13:32:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 10828 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 13:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Aug 2001 13:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pisa.ling.ed.ac.uk) (129.215.204.69) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 13:32:46 -0000 Received: from babel.ling.ed.ac.uk (babel.ling.ed.ac.uk [129.215.204.4]) by pisa.ling.ed.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20838; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by babel.ling.ed.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA25703; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:43 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: babel.ling.ed.ac.uk: andrew owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:43 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: andrew@babel To: "A.W.T." Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Transliterations survey In-Reply-To: <9ldq2d+kurh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE From: Andrew Smith > > Interesting that vo"ro"s is blue-ish red - I learnt it as being a deepe= r > > red than piros rather than bluer. So the Hungarian flag is > > piros-fehe'r-zo"ld (red-white-green), but the Soviet (red) army was the > > vo"ro"s hadsereg. >=20 > This indeed might be highly subjective: I prefer the beautiful "piros" (w= ha=3D > t I see as a yellowish-red) of "Piroska": it's the colour=20 > of Hungarian culture and folklore. (Don't forget communist "V=F6r=F6s Csi= llag" =3D > etc.- for me, this is not a question of hue but of=20 > quality.) Indeed. I suppose vo"ro"s is not used very much nowadays. But what kind of things was it used for before Communism? Is blood piros or vo"ro"s? > BTW, the surname is (often) "We=F6res" (not "We=F6r=F6s" as I mis-spelled= it) >=20 > > > "T=F3oth" now usually is "T=F3th" (not unlike in Danish "aa" -> "=E5"= ); the "=3D > th" =3D > > > has become simple "t". > > > BTW, E=F6tv=F6s is the name of a well-known "gimn=E1zium" in lovely T= ata. > > > The final "-y" or "-yi" {ii} usually is an indicator for nobility (in= a=3D > loc=3D > > > ative function), like in "B=E1t(t)y=E1nyi" - not too=20 > > > comparable, though, to German "Kissinger" as "the one from Kissingen/= Fr=3D > anko=3D > > > nia" ;-) > >=20 > > Is that just the same as the -i ending now, then, like pesti (from Pest= ) > > or even londoni (from London)? >=20 > Yes, I think so. (If you look at the first text written in Hungarian lang= ua=3D > ge, you'll realize the change in orthography: something like=20 > "... tudmuk [hogy csak por =E9s] ham=FA vagmuk..." (sorry, don't have thi= s reli=3D > gious text at hand). Which text do you mean? The Halotti Besze'd?=20 > Yet, this "-i" in general isn't a locative, but something functioning lik= e =3D > modern Putonghua "de/di": "itteni" (related to here),=20 > "ottani" (related to there), "helybeli" (related to 'in this place') both= h=3D > aving a locative meaning, but also: "mostani" (related to=20 > now/this moment), "jelenlegi" (related to the present), "mai" (related to= '=3D > today') etc. etc. Yes, it just makes an adjective out of pretty well any part of speech. Very useful indeed. In fact it's in "halotti besze'd", and I think the original underground (metro, subway) line in Budapest is the "fo"ldalatti". Andrew Smith /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ | _ _ Language Evolution & Computation |=20 | / \ _ __ __| |_ __ _____ __ Research Unit | | / _ \ | '_ \ / _` | '__/ _ \ \ /\ / / Department of Theoretical |=20 | / ___ \| | | | (_| | | | __/\ V V / & Applied Linguistics | | /_/ \_\_| |_|\__,_|_| \___| \_/\_/ University of Edinburgh | | ____ _ _ _ EDINBURGH |=20 | / ___| _ __ ___ (_) |_| |__ Scotland | | \___ \| '_ ` _ \| | __| '_ \ |=20 | ___) | | | | | | | |_| | | | andrew@ling.ed.ac.uk | = =20 | |____/|_| |_| |_|_|\__|_| |_| http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/~andrew | \_______________________________________________________________________/