From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Thu Aug 16 00:59:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 16 Aug 2001 07:59:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 32853 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 07:59:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2001 07:59:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 07:59:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.4.68] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Aug 2001 07:59:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:59:16 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: ma smuni zo senva Message-ID: <9lfugk+5eh9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1453 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.104.218.68 From: "A.W.T." --- In lojban@y..., Cyril Slobin wrote: > coi rodo > > My question is not strictly about lojban, but rather about english > language. According to gismu list, {senva} means "dream". But from my > russian-biased point of view, english word "dream" has two diffirent > meanings that have very little in common. Dream(1) means "to see while > sleeping", and dream(2) is similar to "wish" or "hope". And I cannot > imagine a concept that covers both meanings at once. Maybe this is a > Worfian effect. zo'o Which of two {senva} means? I remember this issue was raised about a year ago when talking about Nick's translation of M.L.King's famous speech, where he used {pacna} for "I have a dream...". And this is okay, although somehow missing the "visionary" aspect (what I really do regret). So I proposed to get it by using compounds, tanru or lujvo, along line of "hope dream", "dream hope" or something like that. BTW, {senva} seems being created according the connotation of Chinese "meng" (which is exactly the same). Some time ago, we had a discussion on the same topic (MLK's speech in Chinese) in our Chinese forum: Don't remember the Chinese expression for "I have a dream" used there, yet it had the same impact (of loss) on me. So we all were trying to create a compound expression to better express the very meaning of this kind of _vision/imagination, believe together with a strong will to make dreams come true_ .aulun.